Old chauvanistic pigs

Frustrated and angry · Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:50 am

I'm going out on a limb here to ask for some help/advice. My girlfriend works for a charter company and has been there for 2 years. In that time she has been offered an advancement, signed the contract for training, but has never actually flown the airplane or been trained on it. Since she was awarded the advancement numerous people, all male, with less experience flying and with the company have been promoted to her job.

The CP has on occasion, pulled her ponytail from behind as she was walking down a hall-way, been asked if she wouldn't mind cleaning the house, and most recently on a transport canada monitored ride, commented, 'not bad for a gal' after finishing the ground part of the exam.

Is aviation still such an old boys club that this is acceptable? the comments made by the CP could be tolerated, but having people promoted ahead of her, to job she was promised, does NOT seem reasonable. Unfortunately, for her to complain to anyone in a position would brand her as a whistle-blower, probably get her fired, and essentially end her career as a pilot.

Any thoughts?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:16 am

Yes, I have a suggestion:

If the CP is doing as you have stated, and your girlfriend is upset about his actions, just take the mother .uck.r outside and beat the living shit out of him.

Its really simple.

Cat

TheCheez · Post by **TheCheez** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:19 am

Most of the complaining I've heard so far has been the opposite of this. I'd tell her to start looking for a new employer, and try and handle the boys as professionally as possible until she's out.

... · Post by **...** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:31 am

Frustrated and angry wrote: ...the comments made by the CP could be tolerated, but having people promoted ahead of her, to job she was promised, does NOT seem reasonable. Unfortunately, for her to complain to anyone in a position would brand her as a whistle-blower, probably get her fired, and essentially end her career as a pilot.

Any thoughts?

Au contraire my dear friend. Comments made by anyone about anything sexest toward anyone else WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN A PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT. Anything less than respectful behavior toward colleagues AND those you are in charge of is simply a neanderthal let out of his/her cage. Call the SPCA or just walk away from this piece of shit that is a Chief Pilot for your girl friends company.

In fact...you're more than welcome to PM me and let me know what company she works for. I have a couple of guy's that owe. Lets just say they are of a 'gumba' relation.

Seriously, if it's true.....either put up a fight and have things changed for everyone else that may follow her footsteps...however there are tons of companies out there that will treat her like a pro.

This topic makes me sooo angry. I phucken hate pilots I really do. And the ones that play the heavy and try to be the hero are the ones I like to smash thier phucken faces in with my head set....but hey....it's me...not them I guess.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:46 am

I agree with Cheez on how to deal with this issue. Make sure she documents everything on paper-- dates, what happened, what was said, who might have seen it-- just in case they decide to go after her for "breaking" contract or any other unforseen events down the road.

C'mon guys! You know who you are. Grow the f*ck up! Don't know how to act civilized?

corn-shoot · Post by **corn-shoot** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:13 am

My boss does that to me all the time, he made me grow a pony tail just so he could yank on it. He says "I'm still purdier than the secretary, and better shaven". I guess I should just deal with it, but your girlfriend shouldn't have to be degraded.

FA28 guy · Post by **FA28 guy** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:18 am

Don't hit anybody that's how they win. Your girlfriend should stand up for herself. Document the occurances. but don't forget she has to make the CP and COM aware or her concerns and see ir there is any change. if there is no action get a good lawer and take the individuals and company to court. A lady did that in this area and she is now back to her job with money in the bank.

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:50 am

Document everything, get witnesses, get a lawyer. Isn't there anyone else in the company standing up for her?

Regardless she can either take it or put up a fight. I do not think a fight would damage her career.

ahramin

another quart · Post by **another quart** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:03 pm

Every company has a policy manual. Read it and there will be a designated person to report to, if the person is him then there is an alternate in that case. Things are to be done by the book. That is the guidline and those are your rights. If she has not progressed there must be a competency reason as in aviation there is no gender or race. This eliminates sour grapes etc etc.
This CP is obviously in competent and does not qualify for his position.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:10 pm

If she has not progressed there must be a competency reason as in aviation there is no gender or race.

idealistic certainly, hopeful probably, realistic not at all....
Unfortunately such biases and prejudices will always be available at the whims of those in charge. It's up to the rest of us to set things right. Proper channels, documenting all... etc... Sometimes, I think birddog and the cat are right... but that's gotta be the last resort.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:19 pm

Why not use both methods?

skyhigh · Post by **skyhigh** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:28 pm

I'm with you CAT....if someone is trying to play mind games with the queen bee, then POW!!

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:46 pm

Physical violence is never the answer.
Unwanted or un solicited touching is NOT allowed in any workplace in Canada. No one should be thinking that this is normal behavior. Sexual harrassment allegations however, can backfire. It's not acceptable to have to do this but she may just say to the putz that his touching makes her uncomfortable. She would be wise to do this with witnesses around and that will make him a little uncomfortable as well. Never underestimate the power of a few well placed words.
The man is a cad and these kind of guys make some of the rest of us embarrassed to be the same gender.

KENNYR · Post by **KENNYR** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:11 pm

Three choices:-

1. Suck it up, put up with it and hope that you will eventually get the job you want

2. Report it to the necessary authorities and hope that he will change and that you will eventually get the job you want

3. Next time he pulls the pony-tail, turn round, knee him in the balls and claim self-defense, then look for another job.

No matter what choice you make, your job will be on the line. Violence should be used as the last resort, and only by the female.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:20 pm

I am Birddog wrote: Au contraire my dear friend. Comments made by anyone about anything sexest toward anyone else WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN A PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT.

Hope air.. 99s.. MillionAir

Plenty of women run operations. Women in the business are actually getting ahead of the men, because they have more resources to help them to the top..

Maybe she should have picked or gone somewhere else. Poor judgement on her part, 2 yrs to figure it out, is she blonde?..

As for signing the contract and not being trained on the plane, did the men pay for their PPCs?? Maybe the boss is waiting for her to do the same?

Mr.Potatohead · Post by **Mr.Potatohead** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:46 pm

yeah, for how long have people been promoted ahead of her? If this has been going on for 2 years, well....maybe should have seen this comming. if it is a new thing, has she asked why? Just curious.

Kurwa · Post by **Kurwa** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:54 pm

Man, it's embarassing to be a guy sometimes. That stuff is not cool at all, or even funny. I've seen female drivers take a lot of crap and just suck it up, all in a days work almost. I've seen it to the point where I felt strongly enough to step in and clarify a few things because I was ashamed of my colleages. But in most cases, I find the types of people involved are just really dumb or really ignorant or both...

...gotta stop here or this rant will never end

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:07 pm

Since she was awarded the advancement numerous people, all male, with less experience flying and with the company have been promoted to her job.

Your girlfriend is in a better place than all the guys I know who this type of thing has happened to. CP's pull this sort of shit on a daily basis. For a guy like me to go and file a complaint with some regulatory authority is to end up standing at the EI office ROE in hand.

But for a woman, the law protects her. She has the power here and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. As for the unwanted touching and negative sexual comments. This company is digging their own grave if they condone this type of behavior.

and most recently on a transport canada monitored ride, commented, 'not bad for a gal'

TC witnessed a comment like that? Wow, now you have the witness you need. TC has very strict internal rules on gender discrimination, they should be a great witness to have involved.

Finally, remember that she (your girl friend) is probably not the only one to have a problem with this guy/organisation in the past. For comparison, some girls in my town just went to the police with alegations of sexual misconduct in the workplace at a local pub. Turns out they're not the only ones. People are coming forward left right and centre with similar experiences.

Don't just let it happen. It will keep happening until somebody stops it. CJ

N2 · Post by N2 » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:33 pm

If it were my girlfriend there is no way in hell I would let it go. Corner the idiot who's pulling this and straighten him out real quick...if you catch my drift.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:41 pm

I have read all of comments on this subject and I agree with most that violence just brings you down to their level. Document, document, document and then go for the jugular. How about fighting for equality and if you do not get it, go to the press. If you find the right reporter, someone who wants to attract attention, they can wreak havok to a guy's rep. Then look for a new job but, before you go, get a brand new PPC with all the bells and whistles and then quit. Right then and there, right after the checkride. If you find a new job, wait till they are up to the ying yang in business and desperate for crews and quit, right there, 1/2 hr before departure. Make him sweat.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:00 pm

As I was writing my previous reply, my scheming conniving innerself was saying. What if, after heeding our unfounded and untested advise, she gets fired. What should she do. Answer, phone the CP's wife and tell her she thinks she may be pregnant. Does the CP want to help financially in the care of the baby. If that is too embarassing, try putting a pair of her best undies in his breifcase or in the glove box of his car or in his office if the wife ever visits. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
If confronted, you can always say oops! wrong phone number, brief case, car, office. Whatever.

patter · Post by **patter** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:08 pm

Is it really worth it? When one complains it's short term gain. Long term there are always doors that close. Who will be her job reference down the road? The old boys club never dies. In these times in aviation, it only gets worse. It's almost always easier and more productive to work where you are wanted and valued.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:20 pm

Patter:

You have made the best suggestion.

Cat

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:21 pm

oldtimer wrote:As I was writing my previous reply, my scheming conniving innerself was saying. What if, after heeding our unfounded and untested advise, she gets fired. What should she do. Answer, phone the CP's wife and tell her she thinks she may be pregnant. Does the CP want to help financially in the care of the baby. If that is too embarassing, try putting a pair of her best undies in his breifcase or in the glove box of his car or in his office if the wife ever visits. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
If confronted, you can always say oops! wrong phone number, brief case, car, office. Whatever.

I completely disagree Oldtimer. Calls are easily traceable.

In any case, I assume that this pilot, like many of the women I've met in aviation, takes herself seriously. Word gets out after a stunt like this and people say "you see!"

It is equivalent to you doing the same thing if you were to get canned-- call up your CP's wife, crying, telling her that you have been her husband's lover for the last 5 years, you have a little apartment in Whistler together, and now he canned you because he's found another guy.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:30 pm

Jeeses this is really getting weird........

I wonder if some of us are spending to much quality time on Avcanada????

By the way Frustrated and angry........what do you consider OLD? is her chief pilot older than me????

Old chauvanistic pigs

Old chauvanistic pigs

Re: Old chauvanistic pigs

Re: Old chauvanistic pigs