Kool photo - A320's landing at SFO

[bizjets101]

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7057968

[Lowjack]

I see that and raise you this:


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Chin ... 77974fb15a

[fingersmac]

Also from SFO.

[DanWEC]

Lol... gotta love long lenses and their compressed perspectives.

[CPLMike89]

Sweet photos thanks for sharing.

[Darkwing Duck]

Does this count????

[Hedley]

long lenses and their compressed perspectives

You wouldn't believe the number of people who simply don't understand the limitations of human depth perception and stereo vision. They are intellectually incapable of comprehending the resulting illusions, as a result.

[yycflyguy]

Distance between SFO's 28L and 28R centerline is only 750 feet. Simultaneous operations using both runways for landings and take-offs is commonplace and yet YYZ avoids simultaneous 33L & R operations with the wind blowing 320 at 25kts.

[iflyforpie]

Lol... gotta love long lenses and their compressed perspectives.

Actually, the second photo is probably done with a short focal length, making the 747 look much smaller than the A321.

[cossack]

[Off-topic]

Distance between SFO's 28L and 28R centerline is only 750 feet. Simultaneous operations using both runways for landings and take-offs is commonplace and yet YYZ avoids simultaneous 33L & R operations with the wind blowing 320 at 25kts.

We do not avoid the simultaneous use of the 33s for arrivals, but the offloads are limited to 6 an hour otherwise we wouldn't have any departures. Each arrival on 33R uses up at least 2 departure slots and in addition many arrivals have to cross 33R after landing because of the airport design. The remaining ones have to do the end around on C or 06L. If the timing is right, you may sneak across at T.

You can't compare the SFO crossing, dual arrive/departure, 4 runway operation with YYZ's wind limited 2 runway operation.
[/Off-topic]

[yycflyguy]

[Off-topic]

Distance between SFO's 28L and 28R centerline is only 750 feet. Simultaneous operations using both runways for landings and take-offs is commonplace and yet YYZ avoids simultaneous 33L & R operations with the wind blowing 320 at 25kts.

We do not avoid the simultaneous use of the 33s for arrivals, but the offloads are limited to 6 an hour otherwise we wouldn't have any departures. Each arrival on 33R uses up at least 2 departure slots and in addition many arrivals have to cross 33R after landing because of the airport design. The remaining ones have to do the end around on C or 06L. If the timing is right, you may sneak across at T.

You can't compare the SFO crossing, dual arrive/departure, 4 runway operation with YYZ's wind limited 2 runway operation.
[/Off-topic]

Well you're right about one thing. You can't compare YYZ to SFO!

SFO will depart aircraft heavy aircraft off of 28L while all the "little" planes depart 01L & 01R crossing the active landing runways of 28L & R with aircraft 750 feet apart on short final. They have their "unique" challenges, but make it work... and yes, YYZ avoids using the 33s. ATC blames the users (AC in particular) for complaining about reduced capacity so they continue flip flopping between west runways and east runways when the winds vary between 320 and 350 instead of using the 33s. There are several 33R crossing taxiways available so I don't see your point.

[cossack]

Well you're right about one thing. You can't compare YYZ to SFO!

SFO will depart aircraft heavy aircraft off of 28L while all the "little" planes depart 01L & 01R crossing the active landing runways of 28L & R with aircraft 750 feet apart on short final. They have their "unique" challenges, but make it work... and yes, YYZ avoids using the 33s. ATC blames the users (AC in particular) for complaining about reduced capacity so they continue flip flopping between west runways and east runways when the winds vary between 320 and 350 instead of using the 33s. There are several 33R crossing taxiways available so I don't see your point.

Long before I got here, the "crosswind exceeding 25kts" rule was in place. The capacity is greater using the three 5 and 6s (130+ an hour) than can be achieved in any combination of use of the 33s (85-90 an hour) and so that is the preferred operation that is in place. I agree that flip-flopping from them and avoiding the 33s is a pain, it's a pain for us too. We don't like changing ends as it backs things up. These decisions are made above my, and I suspect your pay grade. We just do what we're told.

Have you ever landed on 33L then waited 10 minutes to cross 33R as you see someone else land on 33R and a bunch of departures go flying?
Have you ever been in the line for departure for 33R and seen a guy land and thought "This would move better if he didn't land on 33R"?
Have you ever waited in a line on A to get to deicing when on the 33s or even worse, on C when deicing on the 15s? Maybe you'll get to try that one tomorrow.

YYZ is not designed well. I agree SFO is not the ideal layout either, but we make the best of what we're given wherever we are. ATC does not go out of its way to delay aircraft, its just the opposite. Next time you land on 33L and you're waiting at N or H and ground gives you the crossing, get across the runway quickly as there's probably someone behind you and 10+ guys waiting to depart.

Have you ever been up the tower in YYZ? It might give you a better perspective. Tomorrow afternoon would be an eye opener. I'm on shift from 2:15.

[co-joe]

Bike racks after school?

[yycflyguy]

These decisions are made above my, and I suspect your pay grade. We just do what we're told.

You got that right! I spoke with one of our managers as to why we pressure ATC to use the ease/west runways when the winds are pushing aircraft limits straight outta 330 and his comment was that "as professional pilots you are expected to deal with the conditions". Yeah, ok Bossman. Missed my point. Pesky line pilots thinking it would be better to land into wind. What was I thinking?

Have you ever landed on 33L then waited 10 minutes to cross 33R as you see someone else land on 33R and a bunch of departures go flying?
Have you ever been in the line for departure for 33R and seen a guy land and thought "This would move better if he didn't land on 33R"?
Have you ever waited in a line on A to get to deicing when on the 33s or even worse, on C when deicing on the 15s? Maybe you'll get to try that one tomorrow.

Honestly? No. Any time I have used the 33s it has been rather uneventful to taxi out to the CDF or into to the ramp. Maybe just lucky. I will take you up on your tower visit. Will bug you when I get the chance... you guys eat donuts?

[Shark-41]

you guys eat donuts?

If that ain't throwing the gauntlet down, I don't know what is!!

Thanks for the ATC lesson, good to hear from the other prospective. Hope to yack to ATC about helicopters one day!

Cheers
Hagar.

[cossack]

Honestly? No. Any time I have used the 33s it has been rather uneventful to taxi out to the CDF or into to the ramp. Maybe just lucky. I will take you up on your tower visit. Will bug you when I get the chance... you guys eat donuts?

You have been lucky!

I'm at work and we're on the 15s and deicing. This happens maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

We eat donuts and we drink coffee!

Cheers

DC

[yycflyguy]

Honestly? No. Any time I have used the 33s it has been rather uneventful to taxi out to the CDF or into to the ramp. Maybe just lucky. I will take you up on your tower visit. Will bug you when I get the chance... you guys eat donuts?

You have been lucky!

I'm at work and we're on the 15s and deicing. This happens maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

We eat donuts and we drink coffee!

Cheers

DC

That's the difference between you ATC guys and pilots. Pilots only eat FREE donuts and coffee.

[cossack]

That's the difference between you ATC guys and pilots. Pilots only eat FREE donuts and coffee.

That's why we encourage visitors to the tower to feed the controllers, its the only nourishment some of us get.

FWIW we got off the 15s as soon as we could, no surprise there, and then the ILS on 05 kept failing. Its still snowing though.

DC

[scopiton]

Lol... gotta love long lenses and their compressed perspectives.

Actually, the second photo is probably done with a short focal length, making the 747 look much smaller than the A321.

in photography short focal length is below 40mn, below 25 it becomes to be wide, above 50 up to 85/135 it's a long length, and above 85/135 it's a telephoto lens depending on the inner design of the lenses.
aircraft spotters and paparazzi usualy use telephoto length, the first one because the aircraft is far away, and the second one not to get caught...

when you increase the length of the focal the perspective is compressed, but also the background is blur as your focus is closer to the film.

when your target is so far that the focus point is the infinite, and when the light level is high (during a very shiny day) and you have to close the stop (diaphragm), the depth of field increases and the foreground and back ground will be both in focus, as in this shot :

the first helo is in focus, the last one too, but we doubt they would have been on the same line in this foromation flight, right ?

you can experience it with 2 loonies one at armlength, the other one closer to your eyes and focus from one to the other. you'll see that your eye has less focus to do when the loonies are getting closer one to the other, and further from your eye.

at the contrary with a short lens, the perspective is "spread" and the background occupies almost more space than the foreground.

[Joe Blow Schmo]

[Off-topic]

Distance between SFO's 28L and 28R centerline is only 750 feet. Simultaneous operations using both runways for landings and take-offs is commonplace and yet YYZ avoids simultaneous 33L & R operations with the wind blowing 320 at 25kts.

We do not avoid the simultaneous use of the 33s for arrivals, but the offloads are limited to 6 an hour otherwise we wouldn't have any departures. Each arrival on 33R uses up at least 2 departure slots and in addition many arrivals have to cross 33R after landing because of the airport design. The remaining ones have to do the end around on C or 06L. If the timing is right, you may sneak across at T.

You can't compare the SFO crossing, dual arrive/departure, 4 runway operation with YYZ's wind limited 2 runway operation.
[/Off-topic]

Well you're right about one thing. You can't compare YYZ to SFO!

SFO will depart aircraft heavy aircraft off of 28L while all the "little" planes depart 01L & 01R crossing the active landing runways of 28L & R with aircraft 750 feet apart on short final. They have their "unique" challenges, but make it work... and yes, YYZ avoids using the 33s. ATC blames the users (AC in particular) for complaining about reduced capacity so they continue flip flopping between west runways and east runways when the winds vary between 320 and 350 instead of using the 33s. There are several 33R crossing taxiways available so I don't see your point.

SFO either does visuals on one of the parallels or LDA/PRM approaches. They do not do parallel ILS approaches. If the weather is below the PRM limits they're stuck with single runways ops too. Not to mention I've had to go around more in SFO than everywhere else combined because ATC has screwed up the spacing or tried to squeeze somebody in too tight.

[yycflyguy]

Ya, but you're landing into wind!