Sunwing to Europe!

[Localizer]

If Sunwing isn't willing to put the money out for a new venture then maybe they shouldn't get into it. No risk, no reward.

Sunwing uses foreign pilots to fly there 37's .. I take it you have no issues with that either as i'm sure an aircraft groomer has a job because of it.

[Troubleshot]

If Sunwing isn't willing to put the money out for a new venture then maybe they shouldn't get into it. No risk, no reward.

Sunwing uses foreign pilots to fly there 37's .. I take it you have no issues with that either as i'm sure an aircraft groomer has a job because of it.

OK your right and I'm wrong...I will devote my career to making sure only pilots benefit from anything to do with aviation in Canada, hell what was I thinking?

Sunwing isn't willing to put hundreds of their current pilots outta work by sticking their necks out into a volatile "new venture"...it is not about just coming up with the lease payments on these widebodies, but I don't need to tell you that...obviously you have got it all figured out. "no risk, no reward"...looks like they are getting rewarded with very low risk to me...the owners of Sunwing are there to do one thing. Make money. Not to make sure the over crowded pilot population is employed. Not to mention that Sunwing sends over Canadian pilots every year overseas to work.


When Corsair was coming to Canada with their A330 under Sunwing's booking system for the summer I made a ton of money off of Corsair doing their turns, and so did a few other guys. So since I made money and a pilot didn't, that is not cool? I would assume by your groomer jab it is not cool.

I would much rather Sunwing continue with the cautious approach and continue to inject cash into Canadian aviation, rather than get 4 widebodies, have a bad go of it, and destroy the whole company and have hundreds of aviation professional in the EI line....


But hey that is just my opinion.

[WetJet]

So since I made money and a pilot didn't, that is not cool? I would assume by your groomer jab it is not cool.

I would much rather Sunwing continue with the cautious approach and continue to inject cash into Canadian aviation, rather than get 4 widebodies, have a bad go of it, and destroy the whole company and have hundreds of aviation professional in the EI line....

How is this injecting cash? It's the exact opposite. It's cash going from Canadians at AC and Transat to foreign Engineers, Pilots, Dispatchers, Schedulers, Office staff and Management. Adding flights to these routes will affect Transat and AC's service, but as long as you make a few bucks, that's cool right?

[Dick]

Has anybody here ever bought anything made in China? Or does everyone look at the label to make sure it's made in Canada?

[bigskyjoc]

So since I made money and a pilot didn't, that is not cool? I would assume by your groomer jab it is not cool.

I would much rather Sunwing continue with the cautious approach and continue to inject cash into Canadian aviation, rather than get 4 widebodies, have a bad go of it, and destroy the whole company and have hundreds of aviation professional in the EI line....

How is this injecting cash? It's the exact opposite. It's cash going from Canadians at AC and Transat to foreign Engineers, Pilots, Dispatchers, Schedulers, Office staff and Management. Adding flights to these routes will affect Transat and AC's service, but as long as you make a few bucks, that's cool right?

Wetjet, here is a more clear example to prove your point about cash going to foreigners. This sure is a crystal clear example of what you are talking I'm sure!

-----------

WestJet to wet lease 757-200 for added Hawaii capacity

By Aaron Karp | December 22, 2010

WestJet said Tuesday it will wet lease a Boeing 757-200 from North American Airlines to be used on Calgary-Honolulu-Maui and Edmonton-Maui routings from Feb. 12-April 30, 2011, subject to Canadian government approval. NAA will operate the aircraft on behalf of WS, providing pilots, flight attendants and maintenance personnel. WS operates an all 737NG fleet comprising 91 aircraft.

"This temporary lease will allow WestJet to provide additional capacity," EVP-Strategy and Planning Hugh Dunleavy said. "With this leased aircraft, we'll be able to seat 193 guests, an increase from using our own 737-700s … While the Boeing Next-Generation 737 aircraft is ideal for WestJet, there are select situations where a longer-range aircraft is more ideally suited."

[WetJet]

Beating a dead horse. However, I couldn't agree more bigskyjoc. Hopefully both companies are profitable on the routes. I don't want to see either taking losses, it's not good for any of us.

[Localizer]

Has anybody here ever bought anything made in China? Or does everyone look at the label to make sure it's made in Canada?

Hey Dick .. I make it a point NOT to buy anything made in China. I will pay more for a product made in Canada first .. U.S second .. Typically I find the Canadian or U.S made products are way better quality and worth the price. Also .. I never shop at Wal-Mart ..

[Localizer]

OK your right and I'm wrong...I will devote my career to making sure only pilots benefit from anything to do with aviation in Canada, hell what was I thinking?

Sunwing isn't willing to put hundreds of their current pilots outta work by sticking their necks out into a volatile "new venture"...it is not about just coming up with the lease payments on these widebodies, but I don't need to tell you that...obviously you have got it all figured out. "no risk, no reward"...looks like they are getting rewarded with very low risk to me...the owners of Sunwing are there to do one thing. Make money. Not to make sure the over crowded pilot population is employed. Not to mention that Sunwing sends over Canadian pilots every year overseas to work.


When Corsair was coming to Canada with their A330 under Sunwing's booking system for the summer I made a ton of money off of Corsair doing their turns, and so did a few other guys. So since I made money and a pilot didn't, that is not cool? I would assume by your groomer jab it is not cool.

I would much rather Sunwing continue with the cautious approach and continue to inject cash into Canadian aviation, rather than get 4 widebodies, have a bad go of it, and destroy the whole company and have hundreds of aviation professional in the EI line....


But hey that is just my opinion.

Its not really a jab .. but a reality. I don't see the good in shipping high paying jobs overseas and in return get minimum wage jobs to compensate. I don't care if Sunwing sends pilot's overseas on contract .. that's not my problem to worry about. I live in Canada and my issue is only with Canadian jobs and Canadian money being shipped overseas .. Period. What if this Corsair deal puts Air Transat pilots on the street because they can't compete with the cheaper cost that Corsair may have? Is it fair to then say that its a shitty deal for the Transat pilots, but hey! I'm making 10 bucks an hour chuckin' bags for Corsair!

Respectfully Troubleshot ... Sunwing is not injecting anything into Canadian aviation ... they are outsourcing Canadian aviation and finding cheap Canadian labour to support the effort.

[Troubleshot]

All I'm sayin' is after watching airlines come and go over the years here in Canada I'm glad Sunwing didn't jump into a market like this head first...I believe doing so in this economic climate would have been too risky. Myself and a few other AMO's benefited from this venture, along with groomers, fuelers, catering companies, airports, check-in companies (service air etc) ramp service companies, etc...

I honestly believe this option for travelers would not existed with Sunwing if it weren't for this arrangement. I see your side of the discussion obviously, but I think there is room in the industry for this service. I agree with your statement regarding putting Transat guys out of work...if that were to happen because of service like this, then by all means get rid of it, but there would have to be some hard evidence to prove that. I think this service keeps everyone honest and the traveling public wins overall.

[Localizer]

All I'm sayin' is after watching airlines come and go over the years here in Canada I'm glad Sunwing didn't jump into a market like this head first...I believe doing so in this economic climate would have been too risky. Myself and a few other AMO's benefited from this venture, along with groomers, fuelers, catering companies, airports, check-in companies (service air etc) ramp service companies, etc...

I honestly believe this option for travelers would not existed with Sunwing if it weren't for this arrangement. I see your side of the discussion obviously, but I think there is room in the industry for this service. I agree with your statement regarding putting Transat guys out of work...if that were to happen because of service like this, then by all means get rid of it, but there would have to be some hard evidence to prove that. I think this service keeps everyone honest and the traveling public wins overall.

I'll agree that airlines do seem to come and go (ie. Zoom, Jetsgo), but the core airlines for the most part have always been here and supported the industry well. (AC/Transat/Jazz) I don't think its fair to put those companies at risk for a new venture that could drive the market yields down especially on trans-Atlantic operations. Passengers already have this idea that flying is no different then taking the bus and cost should also reflect those idea's .. that's just not realistic.

I guess time will tell ..

[SWG738]

Just to add to the Cheap labour points, European pilots at Sunwing I hate say are actually more expensive than Canadian pilots. Much larger salaries. And I love how some of you are somehow airline economists and champions of Canadian jobs. As stated earlier WJ using North American, Transat using Thomas Cook and you could also make an argument that Air Canada's Star Alliance affiliation with Lufthansa and United. Think how many more U.S. cross border flights Air Canada would have if United wasn't in the picture... I mean the list goes on. Anyways, Sunwing will be operating there own aircraft to Europe soon enough. Much cheaper, but more risk. Hence the trial period with a European carrier. And yes, I do agree that we should have as many Canadian Pilot's doing the work as humanly possible... Keeping in mind the kind of cyclical business SWG has.

[Arctic84]

.[/quote]I'll agree that airlines do seem to come and go (ie. Zoom, Jetsgo), but the core airlines for the most part have always been here and supported the industry well. (AC/Transat/Jazz) I don't think its fair to put those companies at risk for a new venture that could drive the market yields down especially on trans-Atlantic operations. Passengers already have this idea that flying is no different then taking the bus and cost should also reflect those idea's .. that's just not realistic.

I guess time will tell ..[/quote]

Didn't AC fly their cargo in a World Airways MD11 for a year or two a while back? Or are we not allowed to talk about that?

Who did the line indoc on the 757 for Jazz? How far back do you want to look? Austin Airways, a progenitor of Jazz, once imported some HS748's from Chile complete with engineers to maintain them. My line indoc on the 737-200 was from a United pilot; a Boeing guy did the -700. For years we gave money to United and America West for sim time when there were under used sims sitting in YVR. Their owner was a competitor and wouldn't rents us any time.

Let's face it, aviation is a global business. There are times when every airline has to look outside of Canada for temporary help.

[.......]

RE: Transat vs Thomas Cook...et al...

When will you guys understand that it isn't AIR TRANSAT that decides who Group Transat utilizes to carry their passengers???

That is why we, Air Transat (ALPA), negotiated a LOU with the Group during our last negots that guarantees us a certain fixed amount of the Group's flying...

[gonnabeapilot]

RE: Transat vs Thomas Cook...et al...

When will you guys understand that it isn't AIR TRANSAT that decides who Group Transat utilizes to carry their passengers???

That is why we, Air Transat (ALPA), negotiated a LOU with the Group during our last negots that guarantees us a certain fixed amount of the Group's flying...

You mean in the exact same way that it isn't SUNWING AIRLINES that decides who the SUNWING TRAVEL GROUP utilizes to carry their passengers??? People can either be critical of both situations or they can't be critical at all because both Sunwing and Air Transat are in the exact same situation when it comes to the airline versus the travel group. The only difference between the two is that the last time Sunwing pilots negotiated their CBA, Sunwing Airlines was doing 100% of the flying for the Sunwing Travel Group so out-sourcing wasn't thought to be an issue. I'm sure you'll see a similar approach to what the Air Transat pilots did the next time negotations come around at Sunwing.

[Localizer]

You can't control big business .. but I can control where my money goes, and so can every other individual. I make a choice to purchase Canadian made products and I make the choice to fly Canadian airlines operated by Canadian pilots .. because that's who I am and that's who I support.

I will gladly purchase a product from my local hardware store for an extra couple bucks instead of going to the big box store .. I support the little guy making an honest living off products made by people the like .. not a nameless, slave laborer in China, Taiwan or Korea.

Those are the decisions we can make .. those decisions do make a difference. I control my money and who I give it to .. If enough of us did that, then we could control big business and bring jobs closer to home.

Cheers.

[Gear Up]

Quote
[b]I will gladly purchase a product from my local hardware store for an extra couple bucks instead of going to the big box store [/b]Unquote

So will I, cuz it saves me 5 bucks in gas and an hour+ of my time.

[bigskyjoc]

You can't control big business .. but I can control where my money goes, and so can every other individual. I make a choice to purchase Canadian made products and I make the choice to fly Canadian airlines operated by Canadian pilots .. because that's who I am and that's who I support.

I will gladly purchase a product from my local hardware store for an extra couple bucks instead of going to the big box store .. I support the little guy making an honest living off products made by people the like .. not a nameless, slave laborer in China, Taiwan or Korea.

Those are the decisions we can make .. those decisions do make a difference. I control my money and who I give it to .. If enough of us did that, then we could control big business and bring jobs closer to home.

Cheers.

So if Obama produces some sort of "buy American" legislation that puts hundreds of thousands of Canadians out of work, you sir by your own admission would not have a problem with that.

[Localizer]

So if Obama produces some sort of "buy American" legislation that puts hundreds of thousands of Canadians out of work, you sir by your own admission would not have a problem with that.

Obama can do whatever he needs to, just like our country will do the same .. now the way I see it, the US needs natural resources (most of which come from Canada) .. what do you think would happen if we actually charged them the true market value of our natural resources? If you look at the NAFTA agreement the US is getting a pretty sweet deal when it comes to oil. The U.S can't afford to be protectionist .. they depend to heavily on other countries.

If you don't feel the same then continue down whatever road you'd like .. These are just my thoughts and opinions.

[bizjets101]

Sunwing Boeing 767 flight schedule Summer 2011

http://airlineroute.net/2011/03/02/wg-europe-s11/

[~Hollywood~]