Ridiculously blunt salary question.

[Beefitarian]

You might want to stick with your job and add a part time CPL career like you and Hedley are suggesting. Decent income plus being a pilot but not to the point of making one of those, "So you want to be a pilot" videos.

A friend of mine is a retired (at a very young age) partner from Goldman Sachs. He has an ATPL and more airplanes that you would believe, including P-51D.

Any of those need some excercise?

[Hedley]

Do you live in Key West?

[North Shore]

Thinking about instructing part time for the next few years as well.... I can always keep my current job on the side, which is what I'd like to do.


Thanks again guys.

There was a guy I sorta knew in Victoria who did the same thing - LAwyer by day, Flight Instructor on the weekends. I think that he was accepting of the fat that he'd never fly the big iron, but knew he'd get a better cheque from lawyering..

[Hedley]

he'd get a better cheque from lawyering

yeah, no kidding. A successful lawyer could think about purchasing a MiG-29 or SU-27:



If that isn't at least as good as being an aerial taxi or bus driver, I don't know what would be.

PS And you guys thought a Lear 24 was noisy

[Beechball]

12 years. But still working in Canada. Lots of time at home and flying just enough to keep sharp. Pretty much a part time job with a full time salary. But took 12 years to get to the good stuff...

[Beefitarian]

Do you live in Key West?

Not yet but I'm willing to live in the hanger on a nice thick blanket.

[DanWEC]

Thinking about instructing part time for the next few years as well.... I can always keep my current job on the side, which is what I'd like to do.


Thanks again guys.

There was a guy I sorta knew in Victoria who did the same thing - LAwyer by day, Flight Instructor on the weekends. I think that he was accepting of the fat that he'd never fly the big iron, but knew he'd get a better cheque from lawyering..

Ah I wish I was looking forward to a progressive pay scale like a young lawyer, but alas I'm pretty much at the top of my game as it is now, and certainly no chance at owning anything nicer than a 172.

Also, the fundamental difference between this case and mine is that I WANT to fly for an airline. Actually, with that being said, my absolute ideal is to have a corporate jet contract. The plan I am oh so secretly going for is to fly down in the islands, BVI or Maldives for a while.... then fly privately from there. Will it happen? Who knows, you can only try.
I'll have years of taking my lumps before then, but I taking a pledge not to take the shit kicking like I've heard we (mostly) all have to take. It seems to be the norm and that's so saddening. I have some pride. Can one person change the industry? Doubtful.... but standing up for yourself is all one can do.
Cheers,
Dan

[Joe Blow Schmo]

7 years to top 85k. Now, after 15 years, I'm more than double that, and paying far less tax than I would be in Canada.

And my home life has never been better. Going overseas doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your life.

[cptn2016]

For all the bitterness and regret I hear from some people (emphasis on "some"), this thread is encouraging. $85K is certainly a comfortable living, at least in my situation where my wife works also and we have no kids.

For the ex-pats out there, can you please clarify what part of the world you're in making 6 figures? One of the options I am looking at is going out-of-country for work down the road. Not to cast any particular area of the world in a negative light, but Asia, Africa and the Middle East would be towards the bottom of my list of preferred destinations...by any chance are you guys living in Europe, South America, the Carribean or Australia/New Zealand? Are the chances of finding work higher outside of the country?

[Beefitarian]

To over generalize, typically a nice place will have more people wanting to go there. That will have at least a degree of lowering the wages. The exceptions being a nice place that's difficult to get licensed for.

[station60]

after graduating flight college, it took me 5 years to bust 85k. Doesn't really matter though, it'll either go to the wife or the ex wife. you pick.

[Expat]

For all the bitterness and regret I hear from some people (emphasis on "some"), this thread is encouraging. $85K is certainly a comfortable living, at least in my situation where my wife works also and we have no kids.

For the ex-pats out there, can you please clarify what part of the world you're in making 6 figures? One of the options I am looking at is going out-of-country for work down the road. Not to cast any particular area of the world in a negative light, but Asia, Africa and the Middle East would be towards the bottom of my list of preferred destinations...by any chance are you guys living in Europe, South America, the Carribean or Australia/New Zealand? Are the chances of finding work higher outside of the country?

The best money, and cheaper living are normally found in the second and third world...

[BE20 Driver]

I suppose you're referring to me. I was only trying to illustrate that it's not all unicorns and glitter out there. If you've got a good job, and it pays well, you have to be very dedicated to chop your pay from $85K way down to $25K. If you're only looking at the finances of it, do some math. I'm sure that you'd be further off making a steady $85K than getting into aviation and waiting 7-10 years to make over 6 figures. Money isn't everything. Happiness can't be purchased.

Good luck with your decision! If you do go into aviation, make sure you start your retirement savings while you can. That way it will continue to grow while you are young and making little money at some 703 company.

[Expat]

+1

[yak8]

Very interesting posting.
Took me 8, and an another 2 to get to the 1%....and an another 2 to get my word on the schedule.
Like previously said, that was the sum of luck and being at the right place at the right time. (So lot of moving and sincere PR)
BUT, even in the crapiest job i never felt like working !
And now with the equipment we're working with (Sat phone, FMS, Short sleeve shirt year long, Experience co-pilot, Drink and food upon a ring and (almost) Auto-land.... I even feel like cheating aviation. (Can you imagine flying DC3 with Directional beacon ???...)
So lot of pain to get there for sure, i had no choice but to marry my girlfriend after all that! Try to find a better proof of sincerity...
But if you are passionate about flying, go for it. You might get throught it. It won't be without pain. For me the rewards are worth it big time. Was it rational to jump into it full throttle ? NO
Take good notice of bold writing.

[DanWEC]

Very interesting posting.
Took me 8, and an another 2 to get to the 1%....and an another 2 to get my word on the schedule.
Like previously said, that was the sum of luck and being at the right place at the right time. (So lot of moving and sincere PR)
BUT, even in the crapiest job i never felt like working !
And now with the equipment we're working with (Sat phone, FMS, Short sleeve shirt year long, Experience co-pilot, Drink and food upon a ring and (almost) Auto-land.... I even feel like cheating aviation. (Can you imagine flying DC3 with Directional beacon ???...)
So lot of pain to get there for sure, i had no choice but to marry my girlfriend after all that! Try to find a better proof of sincerity...
But if you are passionate about flying, go for it. You might get throught it. It won't be without pain. For me the rewards are worth it big time. Was it rational to jump into it full throttle ? NO
Take good notice of bold writing.

That was very well said- thanks for relaying your experience.

Just to expand on my original post- Nobody's made any rude, finance-centric comments, and I appreciate that.
It's awkward to ask blunt questions about money, while simultaneously stating that I'm not interested about the income. Contradictory sounding, I know. But to break it down simply- I wouldn't be leaving a good job for flying if I was interested in just money. Nuff said.
But lets face it-We work because we have to, and it's impossible to live a good, enjoyable life on 20k a year in most places. Granted, I love flying, but I also like steak. I think that a respectable salary should go along with our positions, and I'm really encouraged to hear that it usually will come after some hard work. There's a lot of negativity in our industry, and rightly so, but you can always rise above.
I'm not sure how we'll be able to change things, and I want to be part of it if I can, but for now I'm just looking forward to the upcoming day that I get to fly all day long, and be handed a paycheque at the end of it!! Ahhh. Work? Nope. If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life.

Cheers,
Dan

[volare]

I finished my commercial in the spring of 2006.
$36,000 in 2007 because I had a non-flying job to pay off school debt/flight time
Down to $20,000 in 2008 my first year instructing
Down to $17,000 in 2009 my first year with a 703 operator
A whopping $34,000 last year.

There are jobs that pay a lot better than where I ended up over the past few years. A lot of it was bad timing in the industry at that point.

[KK7]

It's awkward to ask blunt questions about money, while simultaneously stating that I'm not interested about the income. Contradictory sounding, I know. But to break it down simply- I wouldn't be leaving a good job for flying if I was interested in just money. Nuff said.
But lets face it-We work because we have to, and it's impossible to live a good, enjoyable life on 20k a year in most places. Granted, I love flying, but I also like steak. I think that a respectable salary should go along with our positions, and I'm really encouraged to hear that it usually will come after some hard work. There's a lot of negativity in our industry, and rightly so, but you can always rise above.

Well said, and I too am surprised nobody has pounced on you for being seemingly contradictory. But that's just it, it is a job, and we need to make money to get through life. I for one choose jobs that give me the lifestyle I want and I am incredibly happy with my choices. However not only is it easier to create my desired lifestyle with a reasonable income, I also have a family to support and I want their lifestyle to be comfortable as well.

Going for a job simply for the money is normally not a very good option, nor is going for a job simply for the lifestyle. It is a job, and it is a major part of your life. The trick is to strike the right balance of both that fits your needs and desires.

[Hedley]

Becoming a pilot because you might think it's easy money (I'm not talking to you, Dan) is not a very good idea.

Most people become pilots because they love the flying. But as they get older, they keep flying for the money. If you've been flying for 10 years and you're still eating Kraft Dinner, time to change careers. IMHO you really ought to be making 6 digits after 10 years, in any reasonable career where you are creating significant value.

Frankly, I don't think flying is a very easy way to make money. There are many occupations which pay far more, and don't require anywhere near the personal sacrifices, or the risk to your personal safety.