Medevac OR Medevac??

[Doc]

Okay, I just have to ask.
I've done more than a few "medevacs" in my day. This is not my first rodeo.
When we flew medevac flights, unless the patient was in a certain condition (paramedic's call) we would not declare "medevac status".
And, the GREAT majority of our flights were not "medevac" status flights, but rather patient transfers, etc.
These days however, I notice that EVERY flight Ornge flies IS "medevac status". I'm calling BULL SHIT on this. If you don't need priority flight handling, why are you calling yourselves "medevac" on EVERY transmission???
So, I guess the question is: Why not play by the rules?

[I WAS Birddog]

Something interesting happened tonight between YYZ ATC and Ornge. I just posted it on an ongoing thread in the ATC forum. Here's the link.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=72116

[Doc]

It's obvious to anybody but the blind, deaf and dumb, that Ornge is blatantly abusing the system. Or EVERYBODY in the north is a lot sicker than they look.

[trey kule]

Maybe not the company. The true test of a person is to give them some power, and it may be just pilots abusing it. Hopefully someone from the company will read this thread and look into it.

this kind of abuse has been going on from as far back as I can remember, and gets worse evrytime someone is upgraded to Captain or is a new hire.

[bobm]

Filing “Medivac” is saying that someone’s life is in immediate danger. (minutes count) The actual reg says “to save life or limb”, or pretty close to that. (not opening the book right now) Over the years this has been a problem on and off as some individuals get wrapped up trying to save the world or misuse the system to save two minutes and feel important.

If you are on a “code 4” call, that is; going to pick up a patient that is code 4 (life or limb in jeopardy) or are transporting said patient, you are a “medivac”.

If you are transporting a patient that is; well…being transported for whatever other reason and their life is NOT in immediate danger, you are NOT a medivac.

Filing as such and calling yourself a Medivac when you do not meet the criteria leaves you open to a visit from enforcement. (usually they just give you a “courtesy” call)

Over the years though, we have had to complain about several operators who do not understand for whatever reason. It is pretty basic stuff…..

Don’t cry “wolf”…..I have seen the MOH in Ontario actually speak with operators who misuse the call as well. I am not sure if Ornge answers to them or not though...

[Les Habitants]

Agree 100% with this thread. A lot of patients are just being transported to and from reserves to hospitals nowadays, and they are anything but in critical condition. However, as soon as someone is going to pick up a patient, or transporting them, regardless of their status, they are calling themselves "medevac" status. I think the train of though among medevac pilots now follows the idea that if you are on your way to pick up any patient or transporting any patient, you are a "medevac" and therefore priority, which I really don't agree with.

I agree, keep medevacs for urgent cases where the minutes count-not for old fat joe who can't walk because of a really bad leg injury.

I don't think it's just ORNGE either, it seems everyone who flies medevacs accross the prairies does it.

[captain_dc]

COM - 5.0 RADIO COMMUNICATIONS

A MEDEVAC is a flight responding to a medical emergency for the transport of patients, organ donors, organs or other urgently needed life-saving medical material. This can also apply to certain medical flights, including helicopters, which may be designated as Air Ambulance Flights.

So, a patient transport could be considered a medical flight when you are working as an Air Ambulance. However, when I'm flying a medevac and I do not require priority sequenceing (if the controler doesn't ask, and they usualy do) I state clearly that I don not require priority. Also, when I do require priority I state clearly that we are priority one.

It is important to note that when you are a flying for BC air ambulance or doing a medevac you are not required to pay FSS fee's landing fees or nav fees at many airports. Not identifying yourself as a medical flight will result in a lot of bills that you will have to track back and get re-emburst for later. Not declaring yourself medevac on initial contact may also surprise the controler later in the event that you need to maintain lower altitudes (if not presurized)even though you are not priority or if you happen to become priority one enroute.

Maybe we need a different call sign for non priority medevac. Maybe when on a medical transport that does require priority sequencing we should clearly identify that it is required.

Not everyone flying around calling themselves medevac is abusing the system, perhaps they are using the system how it was intended and some people don't fully understand that, or maybe they don't fully understand when to use the term since it is to my knowledge not clearly defined.

DC

[Maynard]

All this talk of radio work and medevac reminds me of this!

[floatpilot]

are the rules the same for choppers? the one around here is always has the medevac status, even flying from the hospital back to the airport. another example is when they go on a call but are cancelled, they still keep the medevac in the call sign.

[r22captain]

we (helicopter) don't call ourselves Medevac from hospital back to airport empty (no patient) unless there is second call pending and we need fuel and going right away. Even then I'll often drop the Medevac, as it's a short hop, we're never pressured to rush, and since we're in Halifax, the weather is usually crap and we'll mess with everyone trying to land 23/05.

As far as unroute to a call and then cancelled? Then yes it should be dropped unless you've been rerouted somewhere else, which is often the case.

Maybe this is more of a problem in Ontario? We seem to get along pretty well with ATC out here.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

A buddy of mine works for Ornge and he said it's SOP to file medevac on every flight unless they are repositioning.

As well, I am told that the pilots are not told what code the patient is anymore, so it could be a 1 or a 4. Since they don't know, they file medevac every time.

I've done my share of medevac flying as well, with ACP and CCP paramedics and I can only recall once or twice ever upgrading to medevac status.

[mbav8r]

Yep, did medevac for about 6 years, we were not allowed to know about what priority the patient was, as it could affect our go/no go decision making. Always medevac status with a patient on board, for two reasons imparticular, first one is Navcanada and airport fees and the second is even though patient is stable when you pick them up doesn't mean they won't turn enroute with lack of o2.
The only time we did not file medevac was repositioning flights home, unless as stated there was another medevac waiting and we needed fuel or crew change.
Always, when asked by ATC if we were priority, I would ask the flight nurse and respond with whatever they asked for.

[swordfish]

Ours is not to reason why.
Ours is but to do and fly.

[r22captain]

well put!

[Stu Pidasso]

I spent far too long, flying Air Ambulance flights. If the average Taxpayer knew the colossal waste of money, a large number of these are, there would be a huge outcry.

Half of the ones I used to do were nothing more than a Kentucky Fried Chicken and Beer run.

Free ride to the Big City, short stop at the hospital and a free ride home.

Hockey Bag full of KFC and Beer, thanks to the Canadian Taxpayer.

[fish4life]

I'm pretty sure it is MB health priority to use the "medevac" callsign whenever a patient is on board. Now if it is a medical charter instead of a medevac, that is a different story.

[tree-top_willie]

I spent far too long, flying Air Ambulance flights. If the average Taxpayer knew the colossal waste of money, a large number of these are, there would be a huge outcry.

Half of the ones I used to do were nothing more than a Kentucky Fried Chicken and Beer run.

Free ride to the Big City, short stop at the hospital and a free ride home.

Hockey Bag full of KFC and Beer, thanks to the Canadian Taxpayer.

Colossal waste of money? In a lot of cases, very likely but how is it any different than the colossal waste of money the gun registry, corporate tax cuts and other various bailouts the Canadian taxpayer has had to shoulder?
Huge public outcry concerning an essential service needed by the Aboriginal people who live in these isolated reserves? Not with a 100' pole. Think what you want to think but the hard truth to the matter is a lot of us wouldn't have jobs if it weren't for the supposed KFC and Beer runs we all have such a dilemma with. The populations are only growing. Get used to it or find another line of work. The situation is FUBAR

[Expat]

The situation is not worse than for road ambulances. They run away from an accident scene with a patient who has a broken little finger, with blaring sirens, and full speed... Come on...

[SII]

Medivac or Medivac?

[Stu Pidasso]

Thanks for your worldly advise, tree-top, I did find another line of work.

Glad to hear you are happy that your "line of work" is sandbagging the taxpayer.

[SII]

in his deffence it's not him who set the system up, besides most medivacs are easier then shooting chicken in a bucket.

[swordfish]

I spent far too long, flying Air Ambulance flights. If the average Taxpayer knew the colossal waste of money, a large number of these are, there would be a huge outcry.
Half of the ones I used to do were nothing more than a Kentucky Fried Chicken and Beer run.
Free ride to the Big City, short stop at the hospital and a free ride home.
Hockey Bag full of KFC and Beer, thanks to the Canadian Taxpayer.

Our is not to reason why. Ours is but to do & fly.

[swordfish]

PLEASE...don't get me started on Government wastage in the north. There's not enough space on this board.....

[ArcticKat]

The situation is not worse than for road ambulances. They run away from an accident scene with a patient who has a broken little finger, with blaring sirens, and full speed... Come on...

As a paramedic in one of those road ambulances, I call bullshit.

[ditar]

I agree, keep medevacs for urgent cases where the minutes count-not for old fat joe who can't walk because of a really bad leg injury.

The problem is that I have no idea on the condition of the patient when I am flight planning. The explicit policy is that I am not to be told the patient condition in advance, as someone else mentioned, so that my go/no-go decision is not influenced. Even once the person is loaded into the airplane, I am not in any position to make a judgement of their physical state. Often it is evident, if they have tubes sticking out of every orifice, but many times it's not so obvious. So if the patient kicks the bucket in the hold while Jazz is shooting the approach because I didn't file medevac status, then who looks bad?