New TA reached!

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Les Lavoie
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:45 am

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Les Lavoie »

Jaques Strappe wrote:
duranium wrote:From the information feed to me, the underlying feeling from the exchanges is that the junior part of the barganing unit is trying, who is now in the majority, numbers wise, by any way possible, to pay back those that have been on the premises for more than a few years by taking away part of their hard earned advantages. It seems that what the AC MEC is trying to accomplish by presenting this contract to the folks, is buying the favours of the junior part so as to be able, down the road, to ram down one's ei:(senior)throat some very unpalatable changes in the contract. As someone once wrote here, this is a prime example of shooting one's self in both feet, or as otherwise expressed, the me, myself and I generation in it's prime.
The me myself and I generation, as you put it, are the ones at the top who have enjoyed a 30 plus year career in an era of aviation history that will never be repeated, ie: no lay offs, high pay and fantastic working benefits. Today's generation will never see what these guys had.
If I can add to Doug Moore's post above, a little history should help you keep things in their right place. First off, you write that today's generation will never see what these guys had. I sure hope that you are right because it was very far from rosy. As one example of this and the following is not just an isolated case, when I finally held a captaincy position, after eighteen years at AC, you worked very often untill you droped. That first Xmas period, I was assingned a pairing starting Dec 22 at 07:00 and ending Dec 26. On the 26 in the afternoon, CS got a hold of me and added an other 7 days at the end of the first part so that brought me back home on Jan 02 late in the evening. No matter what I said or how loud I protested, that was it. What saved the day on the 30 was that I came across the same Captain I had met in FP on the 23 and after a brief conversation, he looked at what I was doing and mentionned that I could get out from under that flying because I was going thru YWG, that was a crew base and they had to replace me with a captain from there.

As for all those Christmas holidays you are dreaming about, my logbook says I was home for 5 of those (Dec 24 and 25) out of a total of 34 and I only bid bottom position once in those 34 years so it not because I was very junior but more because the block builders at the time took requests from their friends and built them special blocks for the holidays as we did not have for many of those years computer blocking as you have now.

You mention layoffs. Well, we at AC had them also, but not as numerous as at Doug's airline, during it's existence. Fantastic pay, you write. Did you ever have your pay cut by a law of Parliament or did you ever take a pay cut to save other pilots jobs ? we did. You do also remeber CCAA do you. I took a 29% haircut on that one.

We also did not have those ex CS people, your contract experts, now working for ACPA that resolve assignment conflicts between you and CS. We had to do it then grieve it so CS could and did try anything under the sun, often with great success. Also no telephone conversation recording for future reference. All and all, great working conditions n'est-ce pas.

What I am saying is go behind '' the scenes '' and have a hard look. It was far from that rose coloured hue you seem to believe existed. What it seems Duranium is saying is you are about to be sold a bill of rights that you will regret for the rest of your career of agreeing to. You are looking, by signing on to that TA, at very short term gain for very long term pain and there will be no coming back once the ink is dry.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Les Lavoie
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:45 am

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Les Lavoie »

deleted duplicate post :oops:
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Thirteentennorth
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:06 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Thirteentennorth »

Doug & Les, excellent posts!

It is rather typical of the current generation of pilots to think that the previous generations experienced the 'golden years'. This problem is also exacerbated by 'outside' posters [non-AC pilots on this forum whose knowledge of the inner workings of ACPA and AC is third-hand and based on very loose hearsay] contributing to the us-versus-them acrimony [although I somehow get the feeling that some of this is being done deliberately in a thinly-veiled attempt to somehow damage AC or ACPA].

In fairness to this current generation, however, I think that we would have to agree that the present group of ethically-challenged airline executives are a far cry from the Claude Taylors and Hollis Harrises of 'our' generation, and that working conditions have radically changed in the quest for ever-higher 'shareholder-value' and executive compensation. All the more reason, therefore, for the pilots of Air Canada to closely examine this present TA and vote accordingly. I would also urge the avoidance of the short-sighted syndrome, looking at the long term implications of this TA as well as trying to avoid the negative implications of The Law of Unintended Consequences [DB vs. DC e.g.].

Unfortunately, retired pilots are banned from the ACPPF, otherwise some wise advice might be forthcoming from class-acts like Doug Moore and Dave Wall and others, advice that might help current AC pilots to avoid some of the potential pitfalls supposedly contained in this TA. I always remember Bud Wicks saying that our duty as association [none dared call it 'union'] members was to leave the association in better shape than when we arrived. In this current age, that is still a good basis for all our decision-making as members of the collective. Doug & Les, your timely reminders of some of the travails that our generation faced in improving the working conditions of ALL members, will go a long way to dispelling some of the urban legends of a 'golden age' and a 'chosen generation' that are contributing to the present polarization of discourse.

Keep up the good work, mes Amis!

Iain Edghill.
---------- ADS -----------
 
The 4 most important words for a pilot: BRAKES SET, GO-AROUND!
Big Pistons Forever
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5927
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

I remember a day in YVR, it was 1999 I think, and I was flying a Ho on a part time gig as a favour to a friend. As the FO was waiting for a break in the chatter to get our clearance, ATC cleared two airliners to Hawaii back to back and then us. As we taxied out I saw them, One was an Air Canada A330 and the other was a Canada 3000 A330. Same airplane going to the same place except that the Canada 3 had considerably more Bums in the seats. I commented to the FO that the Canada 3 crew made barely 1/2 of the pay of the Air Canada crew. I remember because the young FO took great umbrage when I told him nobody starting out now would ever see the pay and benefits that the senior crews now enjoyed and that he should plan his life accordingly. Sadly my prediction has come true and anybody willing to trade crap pay now in the hope of a future big payoff is, in my humble opinion, delusional.....

As for the DC pension plan....well all I can say is that after 10 years of contributing to my current DC plan with an average of a 5% contribution, matched by the employer, if I were to retire in 10 years at age 60 and convert the value to a lifetime annuity, I will get an annual payout of less than 20K. Stiffing new hires with a DC plan while existing employees get to keep a very decent DB plan and a pay raise, IMO takes selfishness to a whole new level.....
---------- ADS -----------
 
Fanblade
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Fanblade »

duranium wrote:From the information feed to me, the underlying feeling from the exchanges is that the junior part of the barganing unit is trying, who is now in the majority, numbers wise, by any way possible, to pay back those that have been on the premises for more than a few years by taking away part of their hard earned advantages. It seems that what the AC MEC is trying to accomplish by presenting this contract to the folks, is buying the favours of the junior part so as to be able, down the road, to ram down one's ei:(senior)throat some very unpalatable changes in the contract. As someone once wrote here, this is a prime example of shooting one's self in both feet, or as otherwise expressed, the me, myself and I generation in it's prime.
Doug, Les, Thirteentennorth,

Great posts.

But Duranium needs to be addressed.

Do you have a copy of the TA?

The best description I can come up with is this. Protect as much as we can, for as many as we can. For those left behind? Sorry man but something had to give.

I'm not kidding either. This TA is absolutely mind boggling awful.

It has DB pension reductions within it if solvency doesn't recover. We have committed to 3 year benchmarks for recovery, and depending on solvency the benefit gets reduced rather than the company paying the deficit.

A DC plan that takes 5 years to get to a decent contribution level. Not generous

Flat pay extended to 4 years with almost no increase in pay. You get more in the first 2 years and less in year 3 and 4. Way way below WJ

RP's 15% pay cuts plus total. ( Some of that comes from a 10% pay cut in relation to Captain pay.)

LCC airline with FO pay cuts anywhere from -17% to -10% from current wages.

LCC airline with CARS work rules

3% pay cut for FO salaries in relation to Captain pay. So up 5% and back 3% at mainline. you get 2%

Biggest wage increases to 787CA/320CA/EMJCA. all 6%-8.5%

and you know what/ this POS might even fly. No one takes the pay cuts. Everyone is grandfathered in their present wage plus 5%. The pay cut kicks in when your position is replaced with someone else.

There are 2 777 CA on the negots committee. So don't point at us on the bottom of the list.

There is nothing in this for the junior. They are making me very very very mad though.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Fanblade on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
turbo-beaver
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Location: vancouver

Re: New TA reached!

Post by turbo-beaver »

Remember when you vote for or against this TA, that the group that took the largest pay cuts, upwards of $80,000.00/annum, as we proceeded through CCAA, is the same group that you are asking to take more hits now.
Remember also that Robert took out millions of these dollars, that the employees of this airline gave up to help it through CCAA, at the same time an arbitrator took away our pension indexing. .
Personally, I would vote against any contract that would disenfranchise a new group of employees by agreeing to a pension plan that would give them less than the pilots working along side them. At the very least, they deserve the right to make their own choice as to which pension plan they would like, if the company is adamant on bringing in a DC plan. We were able to successfuly merge in a plan from another airline, what would be so difficult in bringing in a blended plan or a plan which would give the new hires a choice?
Personally, I think the time has never been better to have your cake and eat it too.
Just look at the load factors.
---------- ADS -----------
 
frog
Fanblade
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Fanblade »

turbo-beaver wrote:Remember when you vote for or against this TA, that the group that took the largest pay cuts, upwards of $80,000.00/annum, as we proceeded through CCAA, is the same group that you are asking to take more hits now.
That group is getting the largest $ value thrown at them. They are grandfathered at their present wage plus 5%. It is those that replace them that take the pay cut.

I warned you I was very angry. I will try not to take it out on you though.

That group, assuming they are out of here by 2014 gets to keep the present pension benefit.

After that date? Unless a miracle happens? Pension benefit cuts.

Don't even go there with me that the seniors are taking a hit.

Did you see all the pay cuts for the bottom end of the seniority list once those jobs are replaced with...............other people on the bottom end of the seniority list!

I am sorry man. I really want to scream at someone.

They are selling us out.

ACPA motto

Take what I can, last man out? Turn out the lights.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Inceptive
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Inceptive »

Funny how most of the posts here seem to reflect those pro 60+ vs. those
against. My hardship vs. your hardship has little to do with our current
predicament. Please read the TA, then the FACT SHEET and feel free to outline
where these FACTS are burried in the TA. Some, they claim, will be covered in
LOU's to come (history please teach us), others nobody seems to know as to where
there existance may be!
To have 3 weeks to present this to us, with most of the info missing or to be carried
out in LOU's to follow, should raise a lot of questions.
Attend your road shows and walk away happy, or tell them to shove it.
-The increase to 100hrs will mean a reduction in pilots required.
-The increase in pay.. Take a look at the equipment below you, for that is where you may
end up (not by choice).
-And for those who are really lucky (forced or by choice), enjoy the LCC where the CARs are
now your new working conditions!
---------- ADS -----------
 
babybus
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: YUL

Re: New TA reached!

Post by babybus »

Guys,

I am neither junior nor senior at AC.I have about 11 years in.
I have read the TA twice in it's entirety and am profoundly insulted and feeling betrayed by my union.
Is there something I'm not getting?Are there guys out there that would vote yes on this?
Am I crazy to think that this TA gets us closer than ever to a 3rd tier carrier conditions?

Please tell me that this can't possibly pass.....because if it does we will regret it for a long time.

(I thought we were going to get a better contract, not a total april fools insult.)
---------- ADS -----------
 
MackTheKnife
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:54 am
Location: The 'Wet Coast"

Re: New TA reached!

Post by MackTheKnife »

babybus wrote:Are there guys out there that would vote yes on this?
Am I crazy to think that this TA gets us closer than ever to a 3rd tier carrier conditions?

Please tell me that this can't possibly pass...
If history will teach you anything about AC pilots its that 25 % make things happen, 50 % watch things happen and could care less and the remaining 25% say " what happened???? "

I wish I was wrong but IMO this will be voted in with a 75% majority and the bitching will never end. This TA will be the final nail in the coffin of what once was a well paid and respected profession.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it !!!
babybus
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: YUL

Re: New TA reached!

Post by babybus »

If history will teach you anything about AC pilots its that 25 % make things happen, 50 % watch things happen and could care less and the remaining 25% say " what happened???? "

I wish I was wrong but IMO this will be voted in with a 75% majority and the bitching will never end. This TA will be the final nail in the coffin of what once was a well paid and respected profession.[/quote]

Mac I agree with you 100% but this contract threatens our group more than anything that has happened to us in the last 20 years (and I include CCAA).Surely even the most complacent would be motivated to log in and vote to save their career?
Shame on us if this goes through.....shame.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by rudder »

The LCC piece alone is scary enough to ask 'WTF'? The terms and conditions of the LCC make the old ZIP LOU look good (or maybe even SkyRegional). Using 'CAR's' limitations as contractual limits? Must be relying on the "this doesn't affect me" attitude to sneak it by. Not once has the 'airline within an airline' strategy succeeded, but don't let that stop AC from trying the experiment yet again....this time using narrowbodies and widebodies.

As for the rest of it - there are some interesting concepts. But the future never plays out as planned and blue skies scenarios are rarely the reality. B-scale operations and second class pension benefit status are not going to migrate the group towards unification but will simply result in more of the internal 'us vs them' battles that have plagued AC.

The bar in this agreement has not been raised - it has been lowered significantly for the entire profession. Anybody else going into bargaining will have their noses rubbed in this. ACPA has agreed that the era of the pilot DB Plan is dead. WJPA is looking more and more like the group taking the lead.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8433
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Rockie »

This is the most recent message from the ALPA president to the 50,000+ members in Canada and the United States. ALPA has always been 100 times the union ACPA is, but now the difference is especially stark.



The Value of an Airline Pilot

The current—and future—state of the airline industry is of primary interest to professional pilots. We avidly watch airline stocks, closely follow fluctuations in the price of oil, and discuss the effect of industry consolidation and other business news. And the news for 2010 was good: the airline industry experienced a positive turnaround, with airlines worldwide earning more than $16 billion in profits as passenger and air cargo demand strengthened and revenues increased.

We also pay attention to recent events—the turmoil in the Middle East, the disaster in Japan, and increases in fuel costs—and question their possible effect on our airlines’ operations, profitability, and future business plans. Everything matters in the airline industry.

As you will read in “State of the Airline Industry” (see page 13), events and issues such as those mentioned above clearly factor into the overall economic and financial state of the industry. In their comprehensive assessment of the airline industry, the experts in our Economic and Financial Analysis Department describe improvements in the U.S. and Canadian gross domestic product and job market as well as the recovery in both the passenger and air cargo sectors. They also express their concerns about recent increases in fuel costs, which led to their assessment that “the 2011 outlook will largely be determined by the tug of war between fuel and revenue.”

While those factors may determine airlines’ future profitability, they do not determine the value of an airline pilot. While airline managements adjust their business plans according to current events, ALPA is following through on its strategic plan to enhance airline pilots’ quality of life and careers.

We refuse to let external factors that are beyond our control take the Association off course. To that end, ALPA negotiating teams are achieving contractual improvements in pay, work rules, and job security for our members and raising the bar for our profession (see “BOD Delegate Committee 2: Collective Bargaining—Building on ALPA’s Historic Success,” page 21). In turn, airline managements benefit as well through gained operating efficiencies, improved pilot morale, and stronger working relationships with the pilot groups.

As we see continued industry consolidation through airline mergers, acquisitions, and other business transactions, ALPA is fully engaged with all other stakeholders to ensure that pilots’ interests are taken into consideration as these transactions move forward. We are providing extensive resources and support to our pilot groups involved in mergers as well as those facing divestiture and other changes within their airlines.

On the international front, the competition for international flying is increasing, and we must put legislators, regulators, airline managements, and the financial community on notice that we will be vigilant in our efforts to prevent the degradation of the high standards ALPA has justifiably set when it comes to hiring, training, and compensating airline pilots. At ALPA, we believe that a pilot’s value is based on his or her professionalism, skill, and experience. One of our top priorities is to challenge all of these individuals and entities—in the U.S. and Canada and around the world—to value pilots based on these attributes.

ALPA’s continuing work to advance high safety standards reinforces this principle of a pilot’s value. We remain passionate advocates for “one level of safety” regardless of the type of flying because it leads to improved working environments and operations overall. Our message is loud and clear: pilots’ safety, as well as that of the passengers and cargo, in the air and on the ground is paramount to maintaining an already extraordinarily safe and secure air transportation system. And as evidenced in the FAA reauthorization bill, which includes an ALPA priority of making shining a laser at an aircraft a federal crime (see page 25), pilot safety is of prime concern.

Let’s be clear—ALPA pilots make the long-term viability of the airline industry possible. We’re the ones who dedicate our lives’ service to ensure that all airline pilots survive and thrive, and that our passengers and cargo reach their destinations safely. We look out for ourselves because we know that when each pilot group steps up to negotiate a favorable contract, we will move our profession in the right direction. We’ve put in more than our fair share to protect this industry, and we’ll continue to steer it safely into the future by executing our union’s plan with the precision that is required from the finest aviation professionals in the world.

Captain Lee Moak
ALPA President
.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by rudder »

What is a pilot worth? That is covered in the ACPA LCC LOU :oops:

Here is what the guy that got the LOU signed is worth:

MONTREAL—Air Canada chief executive Calin Rovinescu’s total compensation jumped nearly 77 per cent to $4.6 million last year.

The head of Canada’s largest airline earned $2.6 million in 2009 after becoming CEO on April 1, Air Canada said in its proxy circular to shareholders.

Included in last year’s total were “milestone payments” totalling $150,000 for each quarter in 2010, as prescribed in his contract.

If he remains on the job on March 31, 2012, Rovinescu will also be able to access a $5 million retention payment. That amount was included in his original 2009 contract.

In addition to $3 million in cash Rovinescu obtained last year, he also received $1.4 million of Air Canada shares and $156,400 of retirement benefits.

The total remuneration of the airline’s four top executives slightly increased in 2010 compared with the previous year.
---------- ADS -----------
 
teacher
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2450
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:25 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by teacher »

rudder wrote:What is a pilot worth? That is covered in the ACPA LCC LOU :oops:

Here is what the guy that got the LOU signed is worth:

MONTREAL—Air Canada chief executive Calin Rovinescu’s total compensation jumped nearly 77 per cent to $4.6 million last year.

The head of Canada’s largest airline earned $2.6 million in 2009 after becoming CEO on April 1, Air Canada said in its proxy circular to shareholders.

Included in last year’s total were “milestone payments” totalling $150,000 for each quarter in 2010, as prescribed in his contract.

If he remains on the job on March 31, 2012, Rovinescu will also be able to access a $5 million retention payment. That amount was included in his original 2009 contract.

In addition to $3 million in cash Rovinescu obtained last year, he also received $1.4 million of Air Canada shares and $156,400 of retirement benefits.

The total remuneration of the airline’s four top executives slightly increased in 2010 compared with the previous year.
That alone says it all. Demanding paycuts while they get bonuses and raises? Yah right :finga:
---------- ADS -----------
 
https://eresonatemedia.com/
https://bambaits.ca/
https://youtube.com/channel/UCWit8N8YCJSvSaiSw5EWWeQ
Inceptive
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Inceptive »

Rockie wrote:This is the most recent message from the ALPA president to the 50,000+ members in Canada and the United States. ALPA has always been 100 times the union ACPA is, but now the difference is especially stark..
Ask a Colgan pilot how ALPA has changed their life!

Unions are what they are, great to some, worst enemies to others.
There is a document being floated around in order to remove our MEC Chair. Your signature, or lack there of shall be your voice.
If you have received a $10 an hour increase, do the math. Congrats on your $800 a month raise before the government takes their share (20, 30, 40 percent).
Now the big question, what are you loosing?
LCC, CAR's at LCC, aircraft to LCC, DC (who will balance your DB when no one remains), 100hrs/month = crew reductions, 150 senior pilots who wish to return or not retire, increases in LCC flying over the years, 4 hrs pay ART (it's an 8 hr day), 4 hrs sim (it's 10hrs of your time), head to the road shows and hear the rest. Whenever they promiss you an LOU, ask for it in writting, they WILL NOT provide it.
Your union can work, however it is up to you to make it..

The airline is not bankrupt, so do not feel a no vote will cause its extinction.

You are only worth, $1 to $7 of a tickets price, so would a %50 pay cut make us competitive as a LCC, or simply stuff more money in managements pocket?

Ask yourselves the big questions, and drop the petty crap..
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mig29
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:47 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Mig29 »

I say you guys WALK if things are that bad with this TA!! Period.

You fly the biggest iron, you lead the industry in Canada whether for good or bad, the show runs depending how you guys play the cards....then, ladies gents.....stay firm, stand up for ALL not just juniors or seniors, and don't let CR do what RM did to you less then a decade ago!

Time does fly, but my memory and yours is still pretty fresh, and we all know how they low balled everyone at AC in 2003/04....it's your turn to strike back!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
CanadianEh
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: YYZ

Re: New TA reached!

Post by CanadianEh »

Do not vote yes.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
just_say_no.gif
just_say_no.gif (7.55 KiB) Viewed 1980 times
Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8433
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Rockie »

Strange you would think a preference for a union that actually represents its members would be petty crap incentive Your obvious low opinion of the TA hasn't seemed to translate over to the architects of that TA.

Does this mean you still have faith in ACPA?
---------- ADS -----------
 
MickinCanada
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by MickinCanada »

Wow, you guys actually made me laugh tonite....with your conspiracy theories and "just vote no" talk.....probably 75% of the VN (note no) people have not even read the draft agreement...and obviously have not even gone to a roadshow to have it explained to them, and very obviously were not involved in the negotiations....

But they have all the answers....

Give your head(s) a shake....go to the road show, listen, then make up your minds....

I think there have been a few too many head shots in the Flight Planning room and pilots are suffering from CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Norwegianwood
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:16 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Norwegianwood »

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy.........


A disease in which the functioning of the brain is affected by some agent (ACPA) or condition (such as toxins in the blood aka kool aid)

NO!

Did I say NO

Edited for rage........................
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL020
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by FL020 »

Go to the road show???? Are you kidding me?? If fist fights don't erupt out of some of these road shows I'll be impressed. The ac pilot community has totally been insulted, disregarded for their profession, and most genuinely been shit on. I knew some of the capt's flying at zip when they were around. In fact I knew one guy who said he was to the point of offing himself because of the scheduling practices of this in context "airline". ( try 12 hr days of 2-3 legs 4hrs of credit and no hoteling......)

Mr Rovinescu makin 4.7 million??????

Holy !?$@&$!,"'. That is a major load of shit, one of which I saw coming. :evil: o
---------- ADS -----------
 
babybus
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: YUL

Re: New TA reached!

Post by babybus »

MickinCanada wrote:Wow, you guys actually made me laugh tonite....with your conspiracy theories and "just vote no" talk.....probably 75% of the VN (note no) people have not even read the draft agreement...and obviously have not even gone to a roadshow to have it explained to them, and very obviously were not involved in the negotiations....

But they have all the answers....

Give your head(s) a shake....go to the road show, listen, then make up your minds....

I think there have been a few too many head shots in the Flight Planning room and pilots are suffering from CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy)
Believe me we will be at the road shows in large numbers.Explain to me the TA?
That' s like telling your wife ''I can explain why I slept with your best friend''....Explain all you want this is a betrayal nothing less ,nothing more.
But I have to hand it to ACPA they did accomplish something unexpected: uniting the pilot group to fight a common cause! I don't think I've ever seen us this united.
Close to 530 signatures as of this morning on ''the petition''.Keep it up guys the message will be very loud and clear.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8433
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: New TA reached!

Post by Rockie »

MickinCanada wrote:Wow, you guys actually made me laugh tonite....with your conspiracy theories and "just vote no" talk.....probably 75% of the VN (note no) people have not even read the draft agreement
The temporary agreement is undergoing extensive scrutiny and analysis on the Air Canada Pilot's forum by some very smart people. The participation rate there in the last couple of weeks far eclipses any other issue I've ever seen. Very, very few people trust the spin put out so far by ACPA on this piece of garbage for good reason. ACPA has revealed themselves as the company shills that they are.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: New TA reached!

Post by rudder »

Air Canada to launch cut-rate carrier

Brent Jang, Globe and Mail, April 12, 2011

Air Canada plans to create a discount leisure airline to compete on routes to Europe, Mexico, the Caribbean and other popular vacation spots, a move that will ratchet up the competitive pressure on tour operators such as Transat A.T. Inc.

The country's largest airline is actively drawing up a business plan to launch a low-cost carrier (LCC) with four Boeing 767s and six Airbus A319s, with the potential to increase that fleet to 50 planes, according to a letter of understanding attached to the tentative labour pact between the company and the Air Canada Pilots Association.

"The mandate of the LCC will be limited to the market segment seeking low-cost air travel," according to the letter. "The LCC is not intended to replace mainline routes the company considers financially viable. The LCC's success and viability depends on the parties' ability to fulfill this mandate on a competitive basis."

The project is the latest sign of the airline's aggressiveness as it claws its way back from the financial difficulty it got into during the recession. In addition to the new discount carrier, Air Canada recently said it would return to Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport, a decision aimed at recapturing market share among business travellers that it has lost to upstart Porter Airlines Inc.

Air Canada envisages having 30 Airbus planes and 20 Boeings in the new division. Those planes can carry between 120 and 213 passengers in their current configurations, but business class would be removed for the discount airline and replaced with "premium economy" seating.

The airline and the pilots' union have agreed to negotiate a pay structure for the discount unit.

"Air Canada and ACPA wish to establish a labour relations structure covering the pilot-employees of the low-cost carrier," said the letter. A new lower-wage classification of pilots would be started, though the letter cautions that "the full scope and details of the terms and conditions governing the LCC cannot be realistically contained in this LOU [letter of understanding]."

Transat is the country's largest tour operator, followed by fast-growing Sunwing Travel Group, which merged in 2009 with Signature Vacations.

Other tour operators vying for Canadian leisure travellers include WestJet Vacations and Thomas Cook Canada Ltd.'s Sunquest Vacations. Air Canada competes in the charter market through its wholly-owned division, Air Canada Vacations.

Air Canada Vacations already operates in markets such as Mexico, the Caribbean, U.S. sun destinations, Europe, Central and South America and Asia, but its tour packages generally target mid- to higher-end travellers in the charter sector.

ACPA spokesman Paul Howard declined to comment on the letter of understanding, which is dated March 17, noting that union negotiators only began to publicly unveil the tentative agreement Monday in Vancouver, the first stop in a cross-country tour this week to provide details to more than 3,000 Air Canada pilots. ACPA's master executive council has authorized an April 15-27 ratification vote for the tentative labour pact reached last month.

"We wouldn't comment on the substance of a collective agreement before we've even briefed our own members on it," Mr. Howard said, noting that additional meetings with pilots will be held this week in Winnipeg, Montreal and Toronto. "We're in the process of explaining what's in the agreement."

Air Canada declined comment.

ACPA is the first of the airline's unions to agree to tentative contract terms.

The Canadian Auto Workers union, which represents customer service agents and call centre staff, resumed bargaining last week aided by a federal conciliator. Management proposals on table include the creation of new classifications in call centres, says the CAW, whose collective agreement expired Feb. 28.

The Canadian Union of Public Employees began labour talks last week on behalf of flight attendants, while the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers has scheduled introductory bargaining meetings this month with Air Canada.

Labour pacts at ACPA, CUPE and IAMAW expired March 31.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”