WG terminal, short AGAIN

[BEFAN5]

need more people hire more candidates, or protect your over time?

oh oh. Here we go again.

[Valid31]

need more people hire more candidates, or protect your over time?

You are an idiot.

Not one WG TCU controller is interested in 'protecting their overtime'. What they are interested in is spending more time during the summer with their families and not spending 7 days a week at work. We are working hard to qualify new people, but it's not easy and takes time.

Justify your statement or keep your mouth shut please.

[cyeg66]

need more people hire more candidates, or protect your over time?

You are an idiot.

Not one WG TCU controller is interested in 'protecting their overtime'. What they are interested in is spending more time during the summer with their families and not spending 7 days a week at work. We are working hard to qualify new people, but it's not easy and takes time.

Justify your statement or keep your mouth shut please.

[terminaldude]

This a reply to "another-try"
I do work in the wpg tcu and there is no one that puts in flow just for the h-ll of it. It is very easy to judge when you are scared to put in a transfer and come and try it. Unless you have worked in a terminal you have no idea of what you speak. Out of the last 15 trainees we have qualified 3. Out of the last 4 enroute controllers to sign up for training in the tcu, 3 have quit in the school because A) they could not do it or B) it was to hard and they wanted to go back to there cushy life in the enroute. There is a reason that TCU's across the world are understaffed. Unless you have some honest statement to make, like a previous poster stated, "shut the f--k up"! or if you work in wpg Acc. come on down to the tcu and lets talk.

[zzjayca]

Careful there bud with your comment about "cushy life in the enroute" There is one reason and one reason only why more enroute controllers don't transfer to work in Winnipeg Terminal and it has nothing to do with the "complexity" or "difficulty".

However, you are very short staffed and I agree that the flow control is necessary whenever it is implemented.

[SII]

so 1 in 5 makes it how many candidates do you need?

[BEFAN5]

Flying into YWG everyday, just looking at my TCAS scares the shit out of me at times. I find it quite amazing someone is looking over all those blips and making an organized sense of it all. I have never been to the control unit, and do not know what the atmosphere is like, but I can imagine terminal being quite high paced. You have a lot of planes, all trying to get to the same place. You need to keep them separated, and at the same time, give them heading to intercept etc.

If there is a need for flow, flow it up. No airspace should be put in a position that may result in separation conflicts, or worse.

For the 152's that get pissed off not being allowed above 2,500.... Enjoy the view down there while you can.

[Valid31]

I have never been to the control unit, and do not know what the atmosphere is like, but I can imagine terminal being quite high paced.

You are more than welcome to visit any time, just call the shift manager and he will set it up. We always appreciate pilots who want to see what the other side of the mike is like. I just wish I could get into a cockpit or two... I think that if both the controllers and the pilots each had a better appreciation of the other's workload, the whole process would go much smoother.

Careful there bud with your comment about "cushy life in the enroute" There is one reason and one reason only why more enroute controllers don't transfer to work in Winnipeg Terminal and it has nothing to do with the "complexity" or "difficulty".

And when compared to our short staffed TCU, the enroute does have it easy. That is not to say that they don't work hard and that their jobs are not difficult, but I doubt any of them will spend hours at a stretch working near or at their maximum capacity with aircraft separated by the bare minimum on a regular basis.

[zzjayca]

And when compared to our short staffed TCU, the enroute does have it easy. That is not to say that they don't work hard and that their jobs are not difficult, but I doubt any of them will spend hours at a stretch working near or at their maximum capacity with aircraft separated by the bare minimum on a regular basis.

I agree that compared to a short staffed specialty, a specialty that isn't short staffed has it better (not necessarily easier, big difference). Who do you think provides flow control to the short staffed specialties? When flow is implemented, workload goes up in the surrounding specialties. Also, there are some severly short staffed enroute specialties.

Having said that, WG TCU's staffing is problematic to say the least and I don't envy you guys this summer with all the days you'll be working.

The tone of terminaldude's post was what I take issue with.

[Valid31]

The enroutes definately help us out where they can, and I realise that our flow has implications at high level altitudes hundreds of miles outside our airspace. It is appreciated.

This summer will be worse than last in WG TCU, and next summer even more so. But we are on the slow road to recovery. Unfortunately things will still be difficult for our local operators and controllers alike, but that is the reality of our situation.

[SII]

so how many bodies would you need to be properly staffed?

[andrewdch26]

I am embarrassed for NavCanada and angry with NavCanada over the Winnipeg Terminal Airspace issue.
This issue has been going on for years. NavCanada is either incapable, unable, or unwilling to fix this issue.
No end of excuses why they can't fix it...it is so frustrating. To add more insult to this issue, NavCanada PR people will happily tell you they are 95% staffed, and that there is no shortage. Again either they don't know what's really happening in their company or they just don't care. I think they just don't care. If there was a option, I'd go to the competition....but wait...there is no competition! Thus why they don't care. It's a dictatorship.

Andrew

[Valid31]

so how many bodies would you need to be properly staffed?

Sorry, but nobody who works for Nav Canada is going to comment on specifics.

I am embarrassed for NavCanada and angry with NavCanada over the Winnipeg Terminal Airspace issue.

That might be the sort of thing people in the head office would like to hear (they do have a customer service department).

[SII]

so how many bodies would you need to be properly staffed?

Sorry, but nobody who works for Nav Canada is going to comment on specifics.

I am embarrassed for NavCanada and angry with NavCanada over the Winnipeg Terminal Airspace issue.

That might be the sort of thing people in the head office would like to hear (they do have a customer service department).

does that mean that they don't know

[terminaldude]

ZZjayca.
I appolagize if It sounded like I was slamming the enroute with my comment on "cushyness". I realize that the enroute does a great job most of the time in helping us out with any and all flow requirements and sometimes it does add a lot to your workload. The point I was making is that some enroute sectors are so overstaffed that they have excess staff in the lunch room on an ongoing basis (not all sectors of course) and I am sure this summer we will again have days in the Terminal where we have 2 day shift controllers and 2 evening controllers and thats it (instead of 5 days and 5 evening and 2 mid). The problems have arrisen from the fact that about 8-10 years ago the older controllers started retiring and the plan was to cross train people from the tri/terminal (Saskatoon, Thunderbay, and regina at the time) into winnipeg so no other training was taking place. The plan did not work out for many reasons and all those years of training were lost. We have also lost a number of people for medical to family issues. Not surprising with little time off. Yes the money is good, but the family life sucks, and oh ya, the job is great. The last post I made was mostly for "another_try" who had posted that he/she was going to post peoples names and address's if anymore restrictions and flow where implimented, implying that the Controllers in the Terminal where all just lazy good for nothings that wanted only to play golf or something all summer instead of provide a service to the aviation community. WRONG! That was my point. No disrespect for any other controller providing the best service they can under the circumstances intended. I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable summer.

[North Shore]

implying that the Controllers in the Terminal where all just lazy good for nothings that wanted only to play golf or something all summer instead of provide a service to the aviation community.

...The nerve! Imagine that! Surviving 8 months of frigid winter, and then wanting to enjoy their all-too-short summer, and lives, with their families. Back to the coal mine with them!

[terminaldude]

Not looking for sympathy, just a little understanding. If we can each cut eachother some slack once in a while everyone can get along much better. I am hoping all pilots and controller can have some time away from work this summer.

[invertedattitude]

Every controller I've ever met (including myself) is the busiest controller on the planet.

There I'd some truth to it, but obviously some are not as busy/complex as others but many are just as busy, but while some sectors can see working one plane easy, in another one plane can sewer you given the right circumstances.

Some places it's airspace complexity, some places it's volume, some it's a mix of both, end of the day we all go home hoping to have learned nothing about high speed aerial welding.

[SII]

implying that the Controllers in the Terminal where all just lazy good for nothings that wanted only to play golf or something all summer instead of provide a service to the aviation community.

...The nerve! Imagine that! Surviving 8 months of frigid winter, and then wanting to enjoy their all-too-short summer, and lives, with their families. Back to the coal mine with them!

so for 8 months all the overtime they can ask for while they can't do anything anyway cause it's all frozen, and for 4 months everyone else suffers do to the don't @#$! with my overtime pay attitude left over from the former crown corp.

[Valid31]

so for 8 months all the overtime they can ask for while they can't do anything anyway cause it's all frozen, and for 4 months everyone else suffers do to the don't @#$! with my overtime pay attitude left over from the former crown corp.

I know I'm new here, but could someone explain to me what exactly is SII's problem with comprehension? The staffing levels in WG TCU have absolutely nothing to do with "overtime protection", yet this dip shit seems bent on spreading this sentiment. Any particular reason for this? Is he that guy I've seen flying around in a 172 while wearing a hockey helmet with his name written on the front?

[kevenv]

so for 8 months all the overtime they can ask for while they can't do anything anyway cause it's all frozen, and for 4 months everyone else suffers do to the don't @#$! with my overtime pay attitude left over from the former crown corp.

Please pay attention, this is actually quite simple. If, as you infer, overtime protection is the game being played, there would be no restrictions! The reason being is the staffing numbers that are set by management would be filled everyday by those greedy controllers working overtime! The problem is, in YWG as well as many other places, there are not enough people that want to work that many hours. So short of ordering people into work on their days off (doesn't sound like O/T protection does it?) the specialty has no choice but to run understaffed. Now let's say the staffing mins are 3 for the morning. Only one person is available because all those greedy controllers that are protecting their overtime, refuse to come in on their day off, preferring instead to spend it with family and friends. Why is only one available? Who cares. Leave, vacation, sick, self funded leave, care and nurturing, it doesn't matter. So as you can plainly see, your theory of protectionism is flawed. Protection of O/T means fully staffed shifts and NO RESTRICTIONS.

[SII]

Seem like a load of shit to me. you need people hire them. your area is the toughest in canada pay a premium. 1 in 10 make it figure out how many people you need and hire 10 times as many. If I ran my buisness the way your company is, I'd be bankrupt. staffing really isn't that big of a deal, unless you truly believe you are the smartest people in aviation (which put's you about the middle of the road for everyone else in this industry)

[kevenv]

Seem like a load of shit to me. you need people hire them. your area is the toughest in canada pay a premium. 1 in 10 make it figure out how many people you need and hire 10 times as many. If I ran my buisness the way your company is, I'd be bankrupt. staffing really isn't that big of a deal, unless you truly believe you are the smartest people in aviation (which put's you about the middle of the road for everyone else in this industry)

What a thoughtful answer. When your logic is exposed as flawed you resort to "Seem like a load of shit to me". Seriously? No coherent logical rebuttal? I am actually having difficulty believing you run your own business. Well, successfully anyway.

[cyeg66]

Well, broaden the term business to include bullshitting, mud-slinging, shooting-then-ducking, or trolling, then I have no doubt he could quite successfully run a business of his own.

[invertedattitude]

I for one have no doubt this guy could run an airline in Canada, he seems to have the personality and people skills down pat.