1st ever Canadian Heritage Formation Camp May 12-14th 2011

[sabreflyer]

Hi
Some of you already know. VWOC is hosting the first ever Formation flying camp. The main thrust behind this camp is to qualify pilots to do the Heritage formation flying with Canadian Military assets and to develop Canadian SOP's for airshow formation flying.

We will have 2 F-18, 1 F-86, 6 Harvards, 3 Pitts S2B, 1 SU-26, 1 Spitfire, 1 Mustang, 1 Corsair, 1 Christian Eagle

The camp is made possible by the collaboration of TC, Nav Canada, the CF and all participants. This should become an annual event.


Pierre

[fleet16b]

What is the full intention of this project ?
Is it just for situation where civilian and military aircraft fly together or all airshow formations ?

I agree with the military aspect but as for civilian formations, is there really a need ?
There do not seem to be any past airshow incidents that warrent this but I guess an SOP could be useful.
However, Transport Canada already has an SOP for formation flying.

[sabreflyer]

Fleet 16b,
To answer your first question, the intent is to qualify Canadian pilots to fly formation with Canadian Military assets. We call these formation Heritage flights. So you could find yourself in Airdrie AB to watch a CF-18 demo flight and because the CF has endorsed pilot X thru our camp with a Harvard you will probably see also the CF-18 do the Heritage profile with the Harvard.

Your second question about the need for civilian and the lack of incidents, I believe that you may not be correct. We do not need incidents to initiate such a project. I must say this is the first attempt at standardizing formation flying from coast to coast to coast. We may not succeed with this first attempt but with all highly experienced pilots involved we will make progress and learn valuable lessons in the process. You may not know but south of the border they have a standard called FAST. In Canada we do not have such a beast and as you suggest, TC does not publish SOP's.
As well FAST endorsement is required for most US airshows. Since our CF has differences with FAST we think a standardisation with them may be appropriate. Time and try-outs will tell.

IMHO

[cgzro]

Hey fleet16b, having flown a fleet 16d (40 more ponies than yours I can assure there is little chance of formation with a CF-18 except for perhaps a few milliseconds

Anyway I'm major bummed out, am on a freaking buisness trip and can't get back to Gatineau until Saturday so am missing all the fun ... grrrrrr.

You guys be extra careful.

[fleet16b]

sabreflyer

As an airshow pilot I am well aware of the various Heritage Flights across Canada.
We went thru the issue of a FAST type thing here a couple of years ago and there was not much interest.
Also as you say FAST is not a standard recognized thru out the US.
I agree that incidents are not a requirement to start such a movement and there should be a standard if flying with a Military aircraft and that there is always room for improvement. However, we have enough rules and regs already and don't need more that are really not that necessary.
This will just make many of us that have flown formation shows for years have to go thru all kinds of hoops just to re-qualify. Are we going to grandfathered in ?
Seems sort of useless really
Again, airshows in this country have done just fine thus far and there have been no real reasons to start a FAST type program.
Hopefully, this would not be a mandatory thing that is shoved down peoples throats.

IMHO

[fleet16b]

Hey fleet16b, having flown a fleet 16d (40 more ponies than yours I can assure there is little chance of formation with a CF-18 except for perhaps a few milliseconds

Anyway I'm major bummed out, am on a freaking buisness trip and can't get back to Gatineau until Saturday so am missing all the fun ... grrrrrr.

You guys be extra careful.

Hi Peter

My Finch is a Fleet 16R (same as a D) also. ( both VWC and mine started out as 16B's)
I have actually flown a two man show with an CF18 and agree that is was over real fast and not many could hear my Kinner banging away.
Don't know if you are aware but Dave H and I are trying to arrange a 5 Finch formation at a point in the Yellow Wings Tour.
A very unique formation that has not been seen anywhere since the War.

[cgzro]

Very cool. Not easy keeping those little beasties in formation. Wish I could see it. We did some Formation with the tigermoth last summer which was fun.

[mutant]

Pierre,

Please check your pm box.

Thanks,

Mutant.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I am FAST formation qualified and think it is an excellent initiative. There is no need to reinvent the wheel and it has become the defacto standard in the US.

[sabreflyer]

sabreflyer

As an airshow pilot I am well aware of the various Heritage Flights across Canada.
We went thru the issue of a FAST type thing here a couple of years ago and there was not much interest.
Also as you say FAST is not a standard recognized thru out the US.
I agree that incidents are not a requirement to start such a movement and there should be a standard if flying with a Military aircraft and that there is always room for improvement. However, we have enough rules and regs already and don't need more that are really not that necessary.
This will just make many of us that have flown formation shows for years have to go thru all kinds of hoops just to re-qualify. Are we going to grandfathered in ?
Seems sort of useless really
Again, airshows in this country have done just fine thus far and there have been no real reasons to start a FAST type program.
Hopefully, this would not be a mandatory thing that is shoved down peoples throats.

IMHO

Fleet 16b,
I am glad you agree that we need, understood and agreed SOP's to fly with military assets. You seem to think that our objective is to get more rules from TC. Too bad you were not there (maybe next year) 'cause it is exactly the opposite that we are seeking. We would like an industry agreed standard so that it means something to Joe Blow in NF or John in Belle Plaine, SK. We are exploring ideas. Like I said in a previous post, FAST may not be the answer and that would be fine. I know a lot of people that swear by it and others that don't.

Also, we are cognizant of different aircraft type flying formation together. It is quite different to join a Sabre with a Spitfire than a Pitts with an SU-26. We are also aware of the challenges (limitations) of single radio aircraft versus two radios or the simple fact that some large radial engine will render some radios unusable at times. This camp is about that and more.
Cheers

[fleet16b]

Sabreflyer

Thanks for the update on the event. From others that attended , it sounds like things were very successfull.
With you further explaination, I do understand your objectives a bit better and do agree that an industry standard would most likely be a good thing.
However, I am just a bit wary of things that all of a sudden get pushed on people by a minority.
If there was a standard that could be agreed upon coast to coast it may work but getting the majority on board is always a problem.
Please keep us all updated as to further developments as things progress and thanks again for further clarifying things.

[bona]

Very hot. Not easy keeping those little beasties in formation. Wish I could see it. We did some Formation with the tigermoth last summer which was fun.