advice needed: across the atlantic with 2 canines

[picture4]

Hello everyone,

Last year I immigrated to BC with my partner (we are originally from Moscow, Russia). For the last six months I've been looking high and low for a safe way to bring my two dogs to Vancouver, but to no avail whatsoever. I thought maybe you guys could think of something.

The problem is, my dogs cannot be flown under cabin, and they are too big to be in the cabin (28 and 35 kilos). The reason why I can't fly them under cabin is that my older doggy is 13, and the vets we've consulted with all say it's a huge risk for him to be alone in a relatively noisy environment he's not familiar with, since chances of him developing a heart condition are pretty high (he suffers from separation anxiety on top of his old age). so risking his life by flying him under cabin is out of question for us. there's no way we're leaving him behind either, so we are more than determined to find a way of being with him for the time of the flight, other than with a regular passenger airline.


So far I've figured my options are as follows:

1) flying the dogs on a regular cargo flight with myself as an accompanying person. I've found a freighter based in Russia that accepts live cargo, but they've only recently begun scheduled flights to the States from Europe, and they cannot (or won't) have me fly on the same deck as the dogs for security reasons. i respect rules, especially in aviation, it's just unfair that if i had to fly to amsterdam from russia i'd be allowed to be with them during the flight, but not on a transatlantic flight. just my luck. so i'm looking for another freight forwarder whose regulations might allow being with my dogs during the journey.
2) empty legs (cargo or passenger alike). I've discovered a number of companies selling seats on empty leg flights, but the problem is, they don't sell seats separately — i will have to find 10+ more passengers (with dogs, most likely) willing to pay more to cross the atlantic.
3) finding a friends' friend (or a complete stranger with an irrational passion for dog travellers) who owns a private jet and would be willing to let us use it if we cover fuel/airport/pilot wage (any other costs i'm not aware of?)
4) finding a group of people chartering a flight from Europe to North America who wouldn't mind an extra (paid) traveller with two dog crates on board. the last two are not particularly realistic, i know.

I certainly wish i could afford to charter a jet, but that's definitely out of question for me. My budget for the transatlantic crossing is CAD8,000 at best. I am perfectly fine with driving my dogs to any airport in Europe, and then driving them to Vancouver from the airport of arrival in North America, just need to think of something for the ocean crossing (no we can't go by ship — i've done my research, and apparently dogs are either not allowed, or are only allowed in special kennels and not in cabins).

I would be really grateful if you guys could give me any tips on where to look for empty legs/ freight forwarders working with live animals etc OR if there are other ways i'm not aware of, can you kindly let me know. in other words, any input is appreciated!


(actually, not "any". from my experience with Russian forums, people often start persuading me to either fly my dogs under the cabin despite the risk, or leave them in Russia, or euthanize them, or stay in Russia until the dogs pass away etc. You probably understand how frustrated I am to hear all these things for the thousandth time. Could you please, if you can't think of anything that would help me fly together with my dogs, refrain from criticizing my decision and offering alternative solutions. That would really help).

[Sasquash]

Travelling with pets is indeed tricky at the best of time. However if time is not of the essence, have you given any thoughts about travelling via a cruise or shipping company? Here's a link where you can check out cargo ships that accepts passengers:

http://matadornetwork.com/notebook/how- ... argo-ship/

at least it's another option.

Best of luck

Sasquash

[picture4]

Travelling with pets is indeed tricky at the best of time. However if time is not of the essence, have you given any thoughts about travelling via a cruise or shipping company? Here's a link where you can check out cargo ships that accepts passengers:

http://matadornetwork.com/notebook/how- ... argo-ship/

at least it's another option.

Best of luck

Sasquash

Thanks Sasquash, will check them out. Those I contacted before all said dogs are not allowed on their cargo ships.

[bmc]

Canadian flew my 18 month old lab from YYC to LON. Loaders forgot to mention there was a dog in the forward hold. According to the animal reception center in LHR, there was 2 inches of ice on the top of his kennel.

I wish you luck on this one. Let us know what you do and how it goes. It's always good for future reference.

[plhought]

Is there some sort of restrictions on bringing live animals from abroad as well?

I think customs would want some sort of vacination history and all that stuff too.

Quick google search yielded this:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/ani ... nine.shtml

[picture4]

Is there some sort of restrictions on bringing live animals from abroad as well?

I think customs would want some sort of vacination history and all that stuff too.

Quick google search yielded this:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/ani ... nine.shtml

we're on the safe side with all that, it's only the flight itself that is a problem. thanks anyway!

[picture4]

Canadian flew my 18 month old lab from YYC to LON. Loaders forgot to mention there was a dog in the forward hold. According to the animal reception center in LHR, there was 2 inches of ice on the top of his kennel.

I wish you luck on this one. Let us know what you do and how it goes. It's always good for future reference.

omg. did the doggy survive? i hear horror stories like this so often, it's amazing there's still no safe alternative available for big dogs.

[CpnCrunch]

What about chartering a small boat to bring them across the Bering sea? I know it will be expensive, but presumably much cheaper than chartering a jet.

[Rem]

KLM does "specialty" live cargo. Maybe they would have an idea? Even if you can't travel with the dogs it is possible they may have a more humane transport option than the cargo hold. Good luck!

[picture4]

KLM does "specialty" live cargo. Maybe they would have an idea? Even if you can't travel with the dogs it is possible they may have a more humane transport option than the cargo hold. Good luck!

thanks! i'll get in touch with them, but if i can't travel with my dogs it's really pointless. it's not a "more humane" transport option i'm looking for, but a way to comply with what my vets said is of critical importance for the safety of this particular dog.

[picture4]

What about chartering a small boat to bring them across the Bering sea? I know it will be expensive, but presumably much cheaper than chartering a jet.

it will be extremely stressful for ourselves and the doggies, given the state of russian roads, infrastructure, safety issues etc if we had to drive all the way across Russia. it might work if we found a way of flying the dogs to the Bering sea though. thanks for the idea!

[Beefitarian]

http://alaska.org/nome/visit-russia-from-alaska.htm
http://www.beringair.com/content.php?action=russia

I have read about the COPA guys that flew over the straight. The biggest problem faced was there's no english speaking controllers there so it's not as big of a deal if you're a pilot that can speak fluent russian.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/hea ... es/russia/

I'd love to take a C182 or something. maybe a light twin from YYC to Paris or London via that route.

What an amazing trip that would be. Best of luck with your best friends.

[TG]

How about having the dogs sedated, or partially sedated, for the duration of the flights ?
From my kid's memory recollections, that's what we did with our family Shepherd Dog (Groenendael) when we moved from Europe to Canada back in the 80's.

[picture4]

How about having the dogs sedated, or partially sedated, for the duration of the flights ?
From my kid's memory recollections, that's what we did with our family Shepherd Dog (Groenendael) when we moved from Europe to Canada back in the 80's.

my vet says it's a no-no. a quick online research basically says the same
http://petrelocation.blogspot.com/2007/ ... -pets.html

[co-joe]

You need to disguise them as people...


Whatever happens don't take them with Air Canada. There was a story last year about a dog that died of CO poisoning in their care and they simply said " not our problem". Cruel stuff. They delivered the dog dead.

[TG]

my vet says it's a no-no. a quick online research basically says the same

Oh.... Ok then!

One of those many things that had dog living up to thirteen years now instead of eight or nine I guess

[RVgrin]

Get a pair of dark glasses, a harness, and white cane.

[picture4]

my vet says it's a no-no. a quick online research basically says the same

Oh.... Ok then!

One of those many things that had dog living up to thirteen years now instead of eight or nine I guess

both of my previous dogs were 16 when they passed away, so you never know (;

[bmc]

Canadian flew my 18 month old lab from YYC to LON. Loaders forgot to mention there was a dog in the forward hold. According to the animal reception center in LHR, there was 2 inches of ice on the top of his kennel.

I wish you luck on this one. Let us know what you do and how it goes. It's always good for future reference.

The dog was fine. He regularly swam in the Bow River in Calgary when it was -10C.

[BeechjetYKZ]

There are not many ways other than under-cabin (cargo) shipment to move pets that are not unreasonably expensive. Not being a dog owner, I can't sympathize with you but if I was in your case I would have to rationalize the idea. Is it worth the cost/time/hassle to take bring an already aging dog thousands of miles across the world via road then boat? There is no way this route will be any less stressful for an animal than via heated cargo hold. Not being sure what breed of dog this is, 13 is quite old for most breeds of dogs plus the dog is already not in the best health as it is.

My opinion would to be find a suitable adoptee in Russia who you personally know will be able to care for the dog and spend your $8,000 budget on an annual or bi-annual trip back home to visit the dog/family.

[picture4]

There are not many ways other than under-cabin (cargo) shipment to move pets that are not unreasonably expensive. Not being a dog owner, I can't sympathize with you but if I was in your case I would have to rationalize the idea. Is it worth the cost/time/hassle to take bring an already aging dog thousands of miles across the world via road then boat? There is no way this route will be any less stressful for an animal than via heated cargo hold. Not being sure what breed of dog this is, 13 is quite old for most breeds of dogs plus the dog is already not in the best health as it is.

My opinion would to be find a suitable adoptee in Russia who you personally know will be able to care for the dog and spend your $8,000 budget on an annual or bi-annual trip back home to visit the dog/family.

I respect your opinion, but the thing is, there are so many dog owners around the world whose pets are bigger than the maximum size for in-cabin travelling, and who are forced to either leave them behind or expose them to potential risk of travelling in a heated cargo hold, that it feels "wrong" not to push the system that leaves those people with so few options. I guess it's important for me to challenge the situation by not giving in, not only because my dog is very dear to me, but also because, according to the vet, the flight itself doesn't pose any health risks for him if he isn't separated from me.

I agree travelling by car is stressful for dogs as well, but we'll make sure we make frequent stops and give him plenty of attention and support on the way.

The dog is a German Shepherd, and he is in perfect health for his age. He's suffered from separation anxiety since childhood (as a puppy he was abandoned by his first owner and spent a couple of weeks on the street before we adopted him), and he is really attached to me, so i cannot really think of any circumstances under which i would look for a new home for him.

I realize that flying together with Rex is gonna be expensive, but I'm ready to pay for the dog's safety. I really hope there is some option available for us that matches our financial capabilities.

[ez4u2say]

Not sure if this is any help to you, however have you thought of trying to tag along with a horse charter type carrier. I believe that there are some European carriers which utilize a B747..have seen them in both Toronto and Calgary. The aircraft has the manpower to come along with the horses..vets etc. Possibly you could get a seat for you and a space for Rex as well.
see attached link

http://lufthansa-cargo.com/index.php?id=137

[picture4]

Not sure if this is any help to you, however have you thought of trying to tag along with a horse charter type carrier. I believe that there are some European carriers which utilize a B747..have seen them in both Toronto and Calgary. The aircraft has the manpower to come along with the horses..vets etc. Possibly you could get a seat for you and a space for Rex as well.
see attached link

http://lufthansa-cargo.com/index.php?id=137

thanks a lot for the idea. will talk to lufthansa cargo and try horse racing forums. btw, can you think of any other European carriers that deal with horses? I've only talked to AirFranceKLM cargo, but they said they can't have me and the dog fly in the same compartment of the plane.

[mbav8r]

This is a serious response, not a joke, as I too would go to extremes for my dog. How about trying to find a blind person who is also an animal lover, then pay for 2 round trip tickets to Russia. You're the escort on the way there and Rex is the escort on the way back. I'm not sure if you need papers for seeing eye dogs or if an airline would even question it. Best of luck

[picture4]

This is a serious response, not a joke, as I too would go to extremes for my dog. How about trying to find a blind person who is also an animal lover, then pay for 2 round trip tickets to Russia. You're the escort on the way there and Rex is the escort on the way back. I'm not sure if you need papers for seeing eye dogs or if an airline would even question it. Best of luck

yeah, i see your point. the only reason why i won't do it is that i really want to find a way that other dog owners could use. you don't even have to find a blind person, because there is this "emotional support animal" category now allowed in cabin, it's just that i wanna find a legal way of doing this, with no cheating involved.