Downwind to base to final

[trey kule]

the engine temp is an issue. When I learned to fly we would fly downwind, and when we determined the right place we put on carb heat and brought the throttle to idle. Basically learned to plan the base and final with a bit os side slipping.

But.. as is always the case. Common sense gets lost, and people were doing this procedure in the winter at minus 30, and a couple of planes got a bit short added power for the overshoot, and the engine did not respond and they ended up 100 feet short of an 8000 foot runway, so the practice , I believe was generally discontinued.

If you have an engine that can handle being pulled back to idle and the OAT is warm enough this is a great training procedure, as it quickly gets students thinking about the effect of the downwind and final approach wind, and proper runway pictures rather than relying on power, which tends to make them poor pilots.

They do have to , however, at some point learn that this is a training procedure only, and then go on to learn how to approach with power and small adjustments. But the lessons will stay with them for life.
As an aside, I used to say that cadet glider pilots were super good at this, but unfortunately that was when gliders had no flaps or airbrakes, or spoilers, so they had to be slipped. Particualrily with air brakes, glider pilots can now be just as bad at judging the proper runway approach picture as the power pilots.

In any event, one of the most importand things I always felt, was, under normal circumstances to enfore the never turn final below 500 feet..and explain why. It seemed a lesson every new CPL completely forgot once they became "bush pilots"

My rant for the day.

[robertsailor1]

Works for me, we were taught to always give the engine a little power every now and then to clear them, as your right they sometimes could after a long period in cold air balk and not respond when you needed them. We were taught to always have some altitude in the bank and to simply slip it off when we had the strip made so seldom if ever were we ever short.

[Grantmac]

the engine temp is an issue. When I learned to fly we would fly downwind, and when we determined the right place we put on carb heat and brought the throttle to idle. Basically learned to plan the base and final with a bit os side slipping.

But.. as is always the case. Common sense gets lost, and people were doing this procedure in the winter at minus 30, and a couple of planes got a bit short added power for the overshoot, and the engine did not respond and they ended up 100 feet short of an 8000 foot runway, so the practice , I believe was generally discontinued.

If you have an engine that can handle being pulled back to idle and the OAT is warm enough this is a great training procedure, as it quickly gets students thinking about the effect of the downwind and final approach wind, and proper runway pictures rather than relying on power, which tends to make them poor pilots.

They do have to , however, at some point learn that this is a training procedure only, and then go on to learn how to approach with power and small adjustments. But the lessons will stay with them for life.
As an aside, I used to say that cadet glider pilots were super good at this, but unfortunately that was when gliders had no flaps or airbrakes, or spoilers, so they had to be slipped. Particualrily with air brakes, glider pilots can now be just as bad at judging the proper runway approach picture as the power pilots.

In any event, one of the most importand things I always felt, was, under normal circumstances to enfore the never turn final below 500 feet..and explain why. It seemed a lesson every new CPL completely forgot once they became "bush pilots"

My rant for the day.

When I did my GPL it was considered bad form to have to move the spoilers away from the middle position once you passed abeam the touchdown point. That was on the 2-33A which doesn't have the most effective spoilers. In Nanaimo when operating off of 31 you have to do a pretty aggressive slip with full spoilers due to a forested hill right at the downwind to final turn.

With my aircraft I find myself using little or no power pretty regularly on approach, in that case I try to keep some power (1000-1500 rpm) for 2-5 seconds every minute or so. Then again I don't fly in very cold weather, just very damp.

-Grant

[Airtids]

Good stuff here.

For the OP, if what you are doing is consistent, and the result is consistent, you need to change something to have a different/better outcome. Most of your procedure seems sound. I would have to agree that maybe a change in where you turn base would be a help. I'm going to make another suggestion: Keep looking at the runway! I've seen plenty of students, when they are on base, never leaning forward in the cockpit and looking out the side window to see how their approach is going in relation to their "point of zero movement" (or target, or 1,000' markers, or whatever it is you are using). Use that time/space on base to put yourself exactly where you want to be when you roll onto final. If you're not looking at the runway, you can't possibly know how you're progressing.

If you're still having problems, try backing it up a step and do the approach and landing without flap. Everytime you take flap, you destabilise the approach, and need to reconfigure. Not a big deal, but at the early stages it's just one more thing to consider (probably why many of us were taught, and still teach, to land flapless to start!).

Good luck.

[Dagwood]

give the engine a little power every now and then to clear them

Does anybody else wonder about this accepted procedure? I'm no thermal metallurgist here, but wouldn't it be better to leave some a low consistent power setting (say 900-1000 rpm) rather than every 500 feet to briefly add cruise power VROOOOOMMMM!!!! completely destabilizing the approach?

[iflyforpie]

give the engine a little power every now and then to clear them

Does anybody else wonder about this accepted procedure? I'm no thermal metallurgist here, but wouldn't it be better to leave some a low consistent power setting (say 900-1000 rpm) rather than every 500 feet to briefly add cruise power VROOOOOMMMM!!!! completely destabilizing the approach?

That is why a power on approach is the preferred method. With power at 1500 RPM and full flaps in a 172, I can do a 1000 AAE downwind and a 1/2 mile base to final easily. Doing a 1/4 mile final from a 1000 AAE downwind requires idle power, but it is only for a few seconds (and typically when it is hot out because I am usually doing this trying to avoid getting cut off by a glider).

[robertsailor1]

Atually it was never a big varroooom that destabilized the approach. We always used the clutch so the prop didn't speed up.
First of all we didn't fly these huge circuits that are now in vogue, (less traffic) and the little bit of power used, usually on base never disrupted anything because the engines didn't put out that much power to begin with. If we were coming up short which was obvious after turning final then we added a bit of power but we were trained to come in a little high and slip it off once the field was made. I still believe in that as it just makes sense.