42 day duty rule

[willing to fly]

We all know that CARS were written by lawyers for lawyers. I'm just trying to remember and understand the extended duty rules.

Here's my interpretation of 720.19 Requirements for Time Free from Duty
(http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#720_15)

If you are 702/703, not on call and not running scheduled passenger service, you have to have 3 days off in 30 consecutive days. They don't have to be 3 consecutive days

- OR -

after 5 consecutive days off, you can be scheduled for 42 days of duty.

but if during those 42 days, you actually work 27 consecutive days, you require 5 consecutive days off. One day off in the middle would void this part.

Except on the 3rd Tuesday of a month containing 2 full moons.

Ok, that last part is me, but have I got the rest right?

[Dagwood]

(c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;
(d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;
(e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;
(f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;

(g) the accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; and

If you fly 150 hours in, say, 22 days, you are timed out as in (c) above. If you get 5 days off, your 'flight time clock' is reset to 0, and you can resume flying. This could even be within your original 30 day time frame, but that is irrelevant because you got 5 days off.

[Forestdump]

If you are going to use the 42 day requirement for time free from duty, which includes 5 consecutive days off prior and 5 consecutive days off following, that would be the deal. If you can meet the 3 in 30 then use that one. If after 27 days and you can't take 3 days off you are on the 42 day program. Provided you had 5 consecutive days off before the 27 days. If not, you are parked. If I'm wrong or this was confusing, I'm sure someone will chime in.

[willing to fly]

I have never worked at a job where we were pushed to fly that much. I was just talking about it with one of the guys at work. I am asking about the days free from duty, not flight duty time. All of this assumes that you were doing short hops or some sort of "other duty."

I think I've got this figured out.

If you had July 1-5 off, your 7, 30 and 42 day flight times reset. Assuming you had July 14, 25 and 26 off, that would meet the 3 in 30 day rule. This can keep going on forever as long as you: don't time out, aren't on call, can look back and show 3 random 24 hour periods off in the last 30 days.

If you only had July 10 off, you could work until August 6th (27 consecutive days) and then must have 5 days off.

If you had July 10 and 31 off, you haven't worked 27 consecutive days off but don't meet the 30 day rule and have to use the 42 day rule. You can be scheduled for duty up until August 17 and must have 5 consecutive days off beginning on August 18.

[Forestdump]

Good post. But yes. July 1-5 off. With 5 days off you can be scheduled for duty up to 42 consecutive days. Not 42 duty days but calendar days. The boss can use you every day till Aug 02 (28 duty days) till he needs to give you 5 days off. If I was him though I would work you till August 16. If you get a day off in there somewhere pour beer on your corn flakes. There are quite a few seasonal types out there that work this much. They are not pushed to do it.

[FinalforWV]

to add to the confusion, i don't believe 27 in a row is limiting it's just that anything exceeding 27 in a row(up to a max of 42) requires 5 days off after. so 28 days in a row 5 days off. 42 days in a row 5 days off. sorry i meant to say either way you're reset and good to keep truckin'

[just curious]

720.19 Requirements for Time Free from Duty

For the DHC-6 section, the 3 days in 30 can be replaced by a five day rest prior to commencing operations, and a five day reset following the deployment. That permits high tempo operations like fire fighting and the like.

Even with two crew, it is still not something to be entered into lightly. That pesky fatigue thing is sneaky.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Two things to note here...you need the 5 days off before and another 5 days off after if you are going to work any more than 27 consecutive days (27+3 days off is your 3 days off in 30.

The other thing, in regards to the 5 days off resetting your 7/30/42 day totals...just because you had 5 days off does not mean your totals automatically reset, you are only allowed 6 resets per year. So for instance, if you are working 10 days on, 5 days off, you are not resetting your times each time you have days off.

[willing to fly]

hummm...I don't think I've read the only 6 reset thing. I thought you reset every time you had 5 consecutive off...

Do you have a link?

[Redneck_pilot86]

Hmm, I can't seem to find that rule anywhere now either. It shows up in fltduty.xls and references CARS 720.15 and 720.16 but I don't see anything there.

[just curious]

Google TP14400e or f.

The chief pilot exam study guide. Think of yourself as the chief pilot of one. The references for all this sort of stuff is given.
It might be something your boss should know, but the fines are yours for contravention. Which makes this need to know stuff.

[Doc]

All this could be spelt out in simple terms. The rules for truck drivers are simple. Why not make simple rules for pilots? Way too may loop holes through which you CAN be scheduled for FORTY-TWO days in a row. Should ANYBODY in ANY line of work be scheduled for FORTY-TWO days in a row......NO!!!!!
Imagine for a moment, the driver of that Peterbuilt coming your way has been driving every day for the past 42 days?
Your doctor has been working for 42 days straight....and he's about to change YOUR heart valve?
But it's Okay for you to be out there shooting approaches on the 42and day?
Have we learned NOTHING??

End of RANT

[straightpilot]

I think even 150 hours in 30 days is nuts, unless you are doing long legs in the clear above the wx. I flew 60 hours in July this year - with no flight over an hour - and that was enough for me. Looking through my logbooks, the most I ever flew in 30 days was 108 hours. When I was young and dumb.

[bcflyer]

I've done 140 in less than 30 days and I can tell you without a doubt that I was not in top form at the end of the 140th hour. The fact the CARS allows it says alot about who's in charge when it comes to writing the regulations. (little hint, its not the pilots or even the regulators....)

[Eric Bradley]

Lots of good ideas here... FLTDUTY XLS treats it this way:

Once you have 5 days/dates off in a row, you are allowed to go 42 days without requiring another day/date/24 consecutive hours off. This is automatic and doesn't require any action by the pilot if you have the Ops Spec. If during that (42 day) period, you have stretch of duty that extends past 27 days in a row, then you need to have an additional 5 consecutive days/dates off beginning no later than the end of the 42nd day. If you didn't have a stretch of duty longer than 27 days (days off for weather or down time...), then you don't need the ending 5 days off. You do still need to show the 3 days off in 30 days AFTER the end of the 42 days, so this usually means taking a few (2-3) days off after the 42nd day rather than an ending 5 day break.

This is not restricted to "6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period" as are the resetting to zero options and the higher flight time limits allowed by the Standards.