Importance of the additional ground school

[FenderManDan]

So here I am taking the regular scheduled ground school and started flying lessons simultaneously as you well know from my blog in this forum.

The ground school in the FTU is basically a organized in the 17 (3 hour long) presentations that bring a lot of concepts that barely scratch the surface and not all have in my opinion too much relevance for the PPL training (we all know those topics, I don't want to get into it).

I always make sure I get my money's/time worth and ask a lot of questions in detail during the ground school sessions. I am concerned quite a bit and interested in the knowledge that will help be a safe pilot.

My flight instructor is suggesting we take some ground non flying classes with him to cover again some topics.
I did not see in the CARs that additional ground school is necessary. It seems like a waste of time and money. I read a lot about flying on the net and the books (stick and rudder, how and why pilots die, etc) and am totally focused in the plane and in my "chair flying" time.

I video record my entire flight lessons and analyze (eat, breathe, .... flying)

I believe he and i can discuss these simple principles pre/during/post flight lesson and not spend hours jerking around bernoulli's principles, cabin heat controls, carb, etc. I want to focus on things that are in the air (stick and rudder my brother). The rest of the science I can read POH/practice in the plane on ground on my own time.

What do you guys think about the value of the additional ground school led by the flight instructor, maybe I am missing something since I am still a noob (however not dum bass)?

Cheers and happy thanks giving,

Dan

[cdnpilot77]

Are you talking ground briefings and de-briefings of flights and lessons or going through an entire lesson syllabus of a ground school? It sounds like he is trying to go for the latter, which would be difficult to justify, but we also do not have the benefit of the entire story. I am not an instructor, nor do I care to be one, but the multitude of instructors on this site should be able to give you better insight.

Btw...

What do you guys think about the value of the additional ground school led by the flight instructor, maybe I am missing something since I am still a noob (however not dum bass)?

You calling all the other noobs "stupid fish"? I dont get it

[SuperchargedRS]

Seems bass are smart enough to not get caught by me

[Shiny Side Up]

I always make sure I get my money's/time worth and ask a lot of questions in detail during the ground school sessions. I am concerned quite a bit and interested in the knowledge that will help be a safe pilot.

The thing I find with most PPL students is they hold the same opinion - that they are very concerned with what will help them be a safe pilot - but if you surveyed what they thought those things were you would get a whole range of different answers. This also tends to coincide with what interests them in flying.

My flight instructor is suggesting we take some ground non flying classes with him to cover again some topics.

Since you refer to we, I'll assume you're talking about yourself in a group of students. Why has the instructor suggested this? He's not wrong in doing so, but I usually only offer it if students really want extra time delving into a particular subject, or if they're really having problems with some areas. You're right in that its not required by the CARs, I would assume he's offering it for your benefit - though the way you've presented your case implies that you think he's trying to screw you out of some cash. Whether its a waste of time and money really depends on you. Personally if there was something I wanted to know or learn, spent money, and learned it I would hardly view it as a waste of time or money. Its only a waste if you feel you didn't learn anything, or didn't learn anything you felt was "important".

To help you determine though, we must ask the following: How were these extra ground school lessons to be set up? Were they simply reviews of already taken material? Were they student requested topics?

I want to focus on things that are in the air (stick and rudder my brother). The rest of the science I can read POH/practice in the plane on ground on my own time.

Seen a many students like yourself. I would voice caution at this train of thought, since I know there are a lot of instructors who will be happy to oblige and rush you to the plane. Take the time to get the most out of your groundwork (heaven forbid you might have to pay a little bit of briefing time!) I'll guarantee it will shorten your prop turning time to learn stuff.

[Apache64_]

I believe he and i can discuss these simple principles pre/during/post flight lesson and not spend hours jerking around bernoulli's principles, cabin heat controls, carb, etc. I want to focus on things that are in the air (stick and rudder my brother). The rest of the science I can read POH/practice in the plane on ground on my own time.

Skills learned in the air will definitely help make you a safe pilot. But don't gloss over the "science" ie ground school stuff as being unimportant and not really safety related. Understanding how your plane flies, your engine operates, the environment it operates in and on can save your money, your ass and your aircraft. If you have a good knowledge of the ground school subjects then you may not need the extra ground briefings.

In short, don't ask us arm chair jockeys why the instructor is offering extra ground school, ask him what his reasons are. If you don't agree, just say thank you for the offer but I will pass this time.

And don't gloss the science, we learn it for a reason.

Cheers

Apache

[ILSfan07]

I want to focus on things that are in the air (stick and rudder my brother). The rest of the science I can read POH/practice in the plane on ground on my own time.

What students most often don't understand is that it's more than just concepts. The stuff you do in the air often relates to what you've learned in the ground, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to learn it at all. Too often students prepare for "range and endurance" (substitute any lesson), then once they're done with it, they think they can put that lesson away in a neat little box and not have to worry about it. However when I see a student bring the power back to 1500 rpm and they try and maintain straight and level, I know well before they do that it's not going to work, because I know that's below the place that we typically found maximum endurance.

Your flight instructor isn't there to bang you over the head with the information in the FTM and FGU. They're supposed to take that knowledge which you have (so diligently) prepared for, and apply it to YOU as a student, based on your own personality style, and your strengths and weaknesses. How does this information make sense in the context of our lesson? Sometimes a very small misunderstanding of a concept can lead to much bigger problems down the road. It's nice that you're willing to be prepared, but to a certain extent you have to trust that your flight instructor is going to point your enthusiasm in the right direction. Ask yourself if you feel like you've benefited from the briefing itself, or in this case additional ground school. If he's insisting that you pay him to review basic concepts that you already know, then perhaps he's trying to sqeeze a few bucks out of you. However I'd like to believe most people in this world are well-intentioned until proven otherwise

[Big Pistons Forever]

I want to focus on things that are in the air (stick and rudder my brother). The rest of the science I can read POH/practice in the plane on ground on my own time.

What students most often don't understand is that it's more than just concepts. The stuff you do in the air often relates to what you've learned in the ground, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to learn it at all. Too often students prepare for "range and endurance" (substitute any lesson), then once they're done with it, they think they can put that lesson away in a neat little box and not have to worry about it. However when I see a student bring the power back to 1500 rpm and they try and maintain straight and level, I know well before they do that it's not going to work, because I know that's below the place that we typically found maximum endurance.

Your flight instructor isn't there to bang you over the head with the information in the FTM and FGU. They're supposed to take that knowledge which you have (so diligently) prepared for, and apply it to YOU as a student, based on your own personality style, and your strengths and weaknesses. How does this information make sense in the context of our lesson? Sometimes a very small misunderstanding of a concept can lead to much bigger problems down the road. It's nice that you're willing to be prepared, but to a certain extent you have to trust that your flight instructor is going to point your enthusiasm in the right direction. Ask yourself if you feel like you've benefited from the briefing itself, or in this case additional ground school. If he's insisting that you pay him to review basic concepts that you already know, then perhaps he's trying to sqeeze a few bucks out of you. However I'd like to believe most people in this world are well-intentioned until proven otherwise

+1. ILSfan07's post is a very good reply to fenders original post.

The first 10 hours of dual flying instruction represents the most important learning of your entire flying career. This where all of the foundation skills and knowledge is introduced and everything after this will just be application of those principals. This is where you learn to make the airplane do what you want it to do whether that is fly straight, climb, turn slow down, etc. You can learn to do this by rote but it is IMO much better if you have a practical understanding of theory that governs what is happening to the aircraft and flying in general.

[FenderManDan]

What students most often don't understand is that it's more than just concepts. The stuff you do in the air often relates to what you've learned in the ground, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to learn it at all. Too often students prepare for "range and endurance" (substitute any lesson), then once they're done with it, they think they can put that lesson away in a neat little box and not have to worry about it.

+1. ILSfan07's post is a very good reply to fenders original post.

The first 10 hours of dual flying instruction represents the most important learning of your entire flying career. This where all of the foundation skills and

Agree on this.

I was not sure if additional ground school is requirement as per CARs and it is not.

My instructor and I talked a bit and we ended up making the following understanding that we are not going to go into the material of the regular ground school and beat up on the FGU manual. We are going to use the pre flight briefs for the knowledge and concepts that are required as per provided flight training plan. Any additional topics can be then discussed in the non flying time. This is something that is meeting my expectations.

All is good now, carry on.

Appreciate the feedback

Dan