DA20 as a personal aircraft

[Deltawidget]

Hi all,

I've seen lots of comments about the Diamond DA20 as a trainer and from those who use it in such capacity. I was just wondering if anyone on her owns a DA20 for their personal/recreational use. (i.e. not doing spins, stalls and slow flight)

What are they general like in terms of comfort on long cross countries, maintenance/reliability etc.

One point that seems to come across often is that the light wing loading make it quite a bit more jittery. I currently own a Piper Warrior and it is a very stable platform and very comfortable for guests.

A colleague of mine who flew in a DA40 was surprised at how uncomfortable it was and how relatively unstable it was. I cant imagine the '40's smaller sibling is any better...

Thanks for any feedback.
DW

[Doc]

Thought you were going to ask about a Falcon 20....bye bye

[eddyb123]

I trained on the Kantana and as a trainer it's great. Not so much as a personal AC. Not much fuel and if you have full fuel you can't take much baggage. The Da 40 would be the plane to use as a personal AC if you could afford it.

[Shiny Side Up]

A colleague of mine who flew in a DA40 was surprised at how uncomfortable it was and how relatively unstable it was. I cant imagine the '40's smaller sibling is any better...

Not sure where he would have gotten the unstable part from, They fly in a straight line more than well enough. They do it so well that of any airplane they were the most accepting of having bad feet.

Personally I found them way too uncomfortable, but I've heard different opinions on that. On a three hour hop it felt like I was sitting on a two by four. I think if you're not a perfect fit for the seat you're going to have problems. Not a lot of leg room either. One oversight I found as well is a lack of ventilation to the cabin as well. While the Da-40 was better in this regard, the cabin vents made an excessive ammount of noise, which really nullified the very quiet cabin when they were closed. The vents run through the engine compartment which seems like a bit of an oversight on the design.

[Deltawidget]

The DA40 is out of my price range.

I too have heard similar complaints about the seats... At the end of the day, I'm definetly going to have to sit in one myself and decide, but just wanted to hear first hand reviews other than the articles on planeandpilot, aopa and elsewhere which tend to focus on the DA20 in the context of being a trainer only.
Thanks for your responses so far!
DW

[Louis]

I've flown the DA-20-C1 a few years ago as an instructor. Aside from the thin cushions ours had, the seats were comfortable for me. Ensure they fit you too since you can only adjust the pedals.

As a private pilot/cross-country machine, things that come to mind since you mention long cross-countries:

-depending on your definition of "long" the fuel tank might be on the small side compared to your Piper.
-depending on what activities you do at destination, the 50 pound baggage compartment limit might be an issue.

The POH is free on Diamond's site if you want to work out some numbers.

[Geo]

I did my PPL in the DA-20C1, including my cross country trips. I found it very comfortable, as I am average height (5-10). I also find that the lightly reclined seat offsets the hard bench effect, but that's me.

It can be a bit cramped with two people, depending on their size, and the baggage compartment weight is limiting, although it does have room for long cargo (i.e. fishing rods) if you have the plate out which gives access to the hollow tail boom. Half the clubs' trainers had that configuration. You can also get them with glass (Garmin 500 in the case of ours) which is great, though of course not necessary.

Although the tanks are small (24 gal usable) she only drinks about 6 gph in cruise, and so your range is certainly not terrible. Fuel injection means Never Having to pull Carb Heat. (applies to the Continental engined versions of course). Besides, do you want to sit for more than 3 hours at a time?

Watch the nose wheel shimmy if you are thinking of buying one. We had one a/c that was great for teaching you not to land flat, because if you were even a bit flat, the nose wheel would vibe out the whole plane. (the AMEs never could seem to sort that out - of course, maybe we were just terrible students and we all beat up on that one bird a lot more)

I wouldn't say they're unstable at all. "Slippery and Twitchy" is the best description I've heard. They are quite sensitive to control pressure at cruise speeds. Long, thin wings and a long tail boom with a big surface at the end...but you get used to it. Low and slow takes more control stick movement. Cruise speeds, be subtle. You have to manage your energy carefully, because they don't like to slow down fast, again, just a matter of getting used to it. Forced Approaches take forever to reach the ground (11:1 glide at 73 KIAS).

Personal preference: The stick is way more fun to fly than a yoke.

I've moved on to a 182 because I can take more friends sightseeing - but I still go back and rent a Diamond once in a while, I just love flying them.

good luck with whatever you choose!
g

[ybwflyguy]

The DA20s are a joy to fly....faster than 172s and the push-rod controls make it a real nice plane to handle. I found the DA40s a joke...total POS and completely underpowered. The fact that they're competing in the same price range as a 182 or Cirrus is embarrassing.

[mooneym20c]

I have two privately owned DA20-C1. If you go to your local flying club I'm sure that there will be Katana there you can fly for your own opinion. I am 6ft 4 and have no problem as far as comfort ( the pedals go a long way forward). I personally love these aircraft, I'm also an AME and have no issues with these aircraft at all. Deltawidget you can PM me for any other info.

[flyinthebug]

We brought one into the Thunder Bay Flying Club back in the 90s and it was a fun little plane to fly. I preferred it over the old 172 trainers we had. It does lack comfort and fuel load but its still good for a 3.5-4 hr flight. The canopy and stick are cool features and a constant speed prop doesnt hurt either. Maintenance costs were inline with the Cessna`s so I see no reason it wouldnt be perfect as a personal aircraft.

[akoch]

I own and fly a DA20-C1.

The baggage compartment will take 44 lbs. The seats are comfortable and nice, but adding the Oregon Aero 1" seat cushion transforms it into a place where you spend 4+ hours with no problem.

The longest cross-country I made was from Kansas City to Vancouver, 13 hours flight time. It was very enjoyable, but done in May. Summer time and bumps over the Sierras may not be as pleasant.

It does feel more bumps than a 182. Its handling and efficiency is on the better side you can find between the certified aircraft, but it is certainly no Vans RV. The fuel efficiency is 28mpg, Honda Civic territory basically. TAS is usually around 140-145 knots on a cross-country flight. The safety track record and reliability has been really good so far. The maintenance is simple and inexpensive. I think there has been no ADs on the airframe so far.

Personally I've been very happy with the choice of the DA20 as the personal airplane. And I still enjoy taking it to the practice area for some fun. It does not look easy to find a step up airplane, will see.

The only minor wish it the constant speed prop and full glass panel (engine and primary instruments). The rest is pretty nice as it is.

The DA40 has a bit less space up front, and slightly less comfortable seats. Also slightly less sensitive in pitch and roll. Top speed is the same, the bottom of the envelope is appx 10 knots higher. But it is a 3+ person airplane vs a two-seater DA20. Rides turbulence a bit better, has a bit more range, burns a bit more fuel and is basically x2 acquisition, operating and mainteneance costs. Great airplane, I would not mind one.