F-35 looking more like white elephant

[Beefitarian]

CBC employs more voters than fighter jets so they would most likely go the other way frosti and then there would be a perception of more jobs.

What are they going to buy if the US goes completely broke and can't build either of those planes?

[frosti]

This is older, but relevant.

Spot on Rick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViS3TsqySbw

[Beefitarian]

Let's kill the CBC, that guy can go get a real job!

[frosti]

Let's kill the CBC, that guy can go get a real job!

He'll still do his rants, just not for CBC.

[Rockie]

The only reason why everyone is so hot and horny over the Super Hornet is because it has two engines. THAT IS IT.

A single engine is not a big deal I agree, unless of course you're 200 miles north of Inuvik and lose it. Then it's a big deal.

But not to worry, Peter Mackay has given his personal guarantee that the engine will never quit...for any reason...ever. Which is a good thing because the military is worried sick that with only 65 units purchased Canada cannot afford to lose a single one and maintain the tasking required.

[Beefitarian]

Let's kill the CBC, that guy can go get a real job!

He'll still do his rants, just not for CBC.

Sure and I'd go to the local comedy club to watch them when he comes to my city. It might not be quite the same though.

[System Message]

The pair of engines in the F-18 cost less than the F-100 F-16 engine.

[Beefitarian]

The pair of engines in the F-18 cost less than the F-100 F-16 engine.

Easy now. Fuel consumption, initial purchase, maintenance or all three?

[frosti]

The pair of engines in the F-18 cost less than the F-100 F-16 engine.

This is based on your overwhelming experience with both?

[frosti]

Finally a CF-35 news story that makes sense.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki ... 21773.html

OTTAWA - Military planners are concerned the Harper government is buying too few F-35 fighters with almost no room for any loss of the stealth jets throughout their projected lifetimes, according to internal Defence Department briefings.

"Canada is the only country that did not account (for) attrition aircraft" in its proposal, said an undated capability-and-sustainment briefing given to senior officers late last year.
The eye-popping pricetag for individual joint strike fighters — ranging from $75 million to $150 million, depending upon the estimate — has limited the purchase to 65 aircraft.
Access-to-information records, obtained by The Canadian Press, show that when the joint strike fighter was proposed almost a decade ago the air force had recommended a fleet of 80.
Nevertheless, Defence Minister Peter MacKay has insisted 65 is adequate to meet Canada's military needs.

But a separate information briefing from earlier in 2010 shows that the country is purchasing "the minimum acceptable fleet size" and that the air force has been told it should "be prepared to manage the operational risk should the fleet drop below 65 due to attrition."

The F-35s are replacing roughly 77 CF-18s — just over half the original number of 138 purchased almost 30 years ago.
Some of the existing fleet was retired by the Chretien government to save money in the 1990s, while others were lost due to accidents.

Air force planners began to sweat after crunching attrition numbers for the new stealth jet last fall. They looked at the CF-18's accident rate per 100,000 hours of flying time and determined the F-35 might be able to evade radar, but it can't escape fate.
"Canada will lose aircraft; not a question of 'if' but 'when,'" said a Sept. 14, 2010, report.

On the upside, the planners believe that the highly automated F-35s will likely lead to fewer human-error — or "pilot-distraction" — crashes.
There was a spike in CF-18 accidents shortly after they were introduced as aircrew became familiar with them — something the air force worries will happen with the new jets.
The concern has been flagged to the attention of the Harper government, which "will consider the acquisition of replacement attrition aircraft," said the briefing.

But there's a problem there with that. Lockheed Martin is expecting to shut down its production line in 2035, while Canada is committed to flying the stealth fighter until at least 2050.
No one at the Defence Department was immediately available for comment on Tuesday.

But the executive director of the Air Force Association of Canada said it's understood the Harper government is buying what it can afford.
"The cost drives anything and everything, every time," said Dean Black, a retired lieutenant-colonel. "The folks in the highest offices in the country balance all of the considerations and we happen to be living in a tough economy. It is understood these are dire times."
Given the economic times and since the issue is routinely rocketed into the political stratosphere, the chances of the Harper government convincing anyone it needs more stealth jets is next to unlikely, he said.

Black said it's long been accepted that in the event of war or serious emergency, even with CF-18s, the Royal Canadian Air Force does not have enough fighters to maintain continuous air cover over each of the country's major cities.

A U.S. diplomatic cable recently highlighted Washington's concern about that fact and complained about the necessity of the U.S. Air Force stepping in to defend Canadian airspace.
"I'm hoping this report will focus the attention of our elected officials and most senior military officials on what it is we have to do to protect Canadians in Canada."

The air force report noted that Lockheed Martin will test-fly planes while building production models — a risky proposition according to critics.
The first Canadian F-35 is expected to be delivered in 2016 to the pilot training centre in the U.S.
It will take another three years before the first stealth plane makes it to an operational squadron, 4 Wing at CFB Cold Lake, Alta. Bagotville, Que., the other new home, won't see its first plane until 2020, according to internal documents.
The delivery schedule is pushing the current CF-18s to the very limit of their operational life. Even after a multibillion-dollar facelift, the workhorse of the fighter community, designed in the 1980s, is projected to be retired in 2020.

[Beefitarian]

I vote 50.

Of course we need 50 F-22s To go with them and need to start development for a replacement built in Canada. Maybe in 15 years there will be Canadians smart enough to build fighter jets again.

[frosti]

Maybe in 50 years there will be Canadians smart enough to build fighter jets again.

Fixed that for ya.

[Beefitarian]

I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years Canadians can barely build a fire.

[North Shore]

Seems that Wired isn't that great a fan..
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11 ... -50-years/

[Human Factor]

I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years Canadians can barely build a fire.

Fire will be cheap and plentiful to buy from the next up-and-coming third-world country.

[frosti]

Seems that Wired isn't that great a fan..
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11 ... -50-years/

That is a generous estimate from what I've heard. You have to be delusional to think we'll see the F35 in Canuck colours before 2020.

[AuxBatOn]

Knowing a bit about the project frosti, I would not be surprised at all to see them with the roundel on them before 2020.

[frosti]

Knowing a bit about the project frosti, I would not be surprised at all to see them with the roundel on them before 2020.

Well with no actual contract signed yet, we can only speculate. Seems that more money will have to wasted on the 18's to keep them flying beyond 2020.

[iflyforpie]

There could be more trouble brewing....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... -cuts.html

[C-GGGQ]

HALF the cuts are coming out of defence. That's harsh

[Big Pistons Forever]

HALF the cuts are coming out of defence. That's harsh

Yes but the US defence budget is huge. If you ranked the top 15 Countries in the world by the size of their defense budget, the US spends more on the Military than country 2 through 15 combined.

[C-GGGQ]

A quick search puts the 2012 budget at $1.030–$1.415 trillion. Which IS a lot but 500-600 billion is still not only half of the budget cuts, but half of the budget.

[2R]

Maybe if the cuts are big enough and they need some quick cash they might sell off some A-10s

[frosti]

Maybe if the cuts are big enough and they need some quick cash they might sell off some A-10s

Yup, then we can stick them on pedestals on all the Wings across the country.

[Expat]

"The least capable, most complex, most expensive, most problematic F-35 is amply demonstrating its doomed-from-the-start heritage," Wheeler said.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... bs-365059/