Write your MP: foreign pilots, TS layoffs

[flyincanuck]

Does anyone else find it utterly repulsive that the government gives their blessing to companies such as Sunwing and (more importantly) Can Jet to allow them to employ dozens of foreign pilots, while 17 highly qualified TS jet drivers are getting the axe?

I don't care if it's an A310 or 737.

Simply shameful, Canada.

How far along are our friends at CPPC?

Write your MP. Enough is enough, and the least we can do as Canadian pilots is make our voice heard.

[P180]

Does anyone else find it utterly repulsive that the government gives their blessing to companies such as Sunwing and (more importantly) Can Jet to allow them to employ dozens of foreign pilots, while 17 highly qualified TS jet drivers are getting the axe?

I don't care if it's an A310 or 737.

Simply shameful, Canada.

How far along are our friends at CPPC?

Write your MP. Enough is enough, and the least we can do as Canadian pilots is make our voice heard.

Welcome to Canada where the government doesn,t give a shit.

[flyincanuck]

Maybe cause it's citizens don't either.

Good start.

[Ghost Rider]

For those that do .. drop in your postal code and drop an email


http://www.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilat ... x?Menu=HOC

[TA/RA]

While I agree with you in principle. Isn't it also true that Canadian Sunwing drivers go and fly in europe in the summer. Seems like a damned if you do damned if you don't because of the reciprocal agreement the sunwing guys stay employed over the summer. I may be wrong but i seems to balance out.

[ahramin]

I've run into lots of Sunwing guys in Europe in the summer. I don't think it's the same situation as Canjet saying they can't find any Canadian pilots.

[aerodude]

One can not only blame sunwing and canjet as they will do what's in their interest. The problem lies with the management at TS that thinks they can lay off 17 guys within 30-45 days of hiring them. These guys probably quit great jobs to get to TS only to be treated like scums. To top it all off, they employ over 150 pilots at Canjet to do Transat's work.

[Max_Diff]

Just for the record, CanJet dosent employ over 150 permanent pilots, I believe its 120 ish (has been for the last 3 years). And we do work for Transat AT, not "Air Transat's work". There is no way Transat AT will give 100% of the flying to Air Transat, then the pilot group holds to much power...if they go on strike Transat AT is screwed...so there will always be some contracting of the flying there. No question. And Air Transat knows that. And as a note CanJet has the same flying this winter as last, and less than the the year before that. While Air Transat has grown - which is good.

With that said I don't like seeing Canadian pilots losing jobs while there are foreigners employed. But - I do blame Air Transat's management directly for the 17 guys being unemployed...how do you lay off guys in GS/SIM and say you didn't know the winter flying season numbers? Really? The season has already started! I feel sad for those guys/gals.

Like I said, I don't agree with foreign pilots being used while there are unemployed Canadians (goverments fault, not the Companies), but even if we were all employed I don't agree with taking in enough foreign pilots to increase you pilot group by 120% (Sunwing) just so you can run all kinds of flights and saturate the market and hurt other companies potentially causing massive lay offs. The goverment should not be allowing foreign contract workers to be employed just to compete and hurt other Canadian companies.

[tsgas]

Let the free market prevail.

[justwork]

Maybe Canadian pilots need to "occupy" something.

[bobcaygeon]

Is the AT ALPA group in negots with mgmt right now? Didn't they just recently sign a deal? Is there a dispute ongoing over interpretation of the contract right now?

I ask because I have seen this tactic used at Jazz/Air Ontario in 2001. Pilots actually recieved pink slips while on their initial Dash 8 course. The union & mgmt were bickering over what % flying tier 3 GGN could do. Both groups had their interpretations of what the contract stated. ie similar to Chorus (Jazz) vs AC lawsuit over CPA rates.


In the end after posturing and bluffing on both sides, nobody actually was laid off as the groups came to an agreement. I am sure both mgmt and the union spent more time figuring out how both groups could leave appearing as "winners" to the people they represented or answered to.

Then 2 years later AC bankruptcy hit and that was a different story. approx. 10% (120ish) of piot group was laid off.

['CauseTheCaravanCan]

haha, occupy.
okay, but can we tent inside?

[Colonel Sanders]

I would support this if every Canadian pilot working overseas agrees to quit their job and come home.

[TA/RA]

I would support this if every Canadian pilot working overseas agrees to quit their job and come home.

Agreed,

I personally have had the privilege of working overseas as a Canadian and it helped my career. We can't have our cake and eat it too. ie. Canadians working overseas / europe.

[767]

I would support this if every Canadian pilot working overseas agrees to quit their job and come home.

Come home to work for $30k a year? Right now, it makes no sense to come back.

I also believe the Canadian government is at fault, they need to do something.

[Colonel Sanders]

ummm ... errr ... oh, never mind.

[flyinthebug]

I would support this if every Canadian pilot working overseas agrees to quit their job and come home.

Agreed,

I personally have had the privilege of working overseas as a Canadian and it helped my career. We can't have our cake and eat it too. ie. Canadians working overseas / europe.

X2! We cheer on our friends that get on in the Maldives, or KLM in Europe..and there are at least 20 Canadian Pilots flying for Luftansa! I enjoyed working overseas as well and was welcomed and treated very well. The way Canadian pilots feel they are "entitled" to jobs in our country is just idiotic. We go fly all over the world...whats wrong with some Europeans or others flying here in Canada? Its as great for them to come here as it is for us to go there. Oh and quit blaming the government for every problem in our industry(767). Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies. We need to get the government OUT of private business...not turn to them for more interference. If you question this, just look at what Ms. Raitt just did to AC.
Fly safe all.

[ng78]

I would support this if every Canadian pilot working overseas agrees to quit their job and come home.

Agreed,

I personally have had the privilege of working overseas as a Canadian and it helped my career. We can't have our cake and eat it too. ie. Canadians working overseas / europe.

X2! We cheer on our friends that get on in the Maldives, or KLM in Europe..and there are at least 20 Canadian Pilots flying for Luftansa! I enjoyed working overseas as well and was welcomed and treated very well. The way Canadian pilots feel they are "entitled" to jobs in our country is just idiotic. We go fly all over the world...whats wrong with some Europeans or others flying here in Canada? Its as great for them to come here as it is for us to go there. Oh and quit blaming the government for every problem in our industry(767). Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies. We need to get the government OUT of private business...not turn to them for more interference. If you question this, just look at what Ms. Raitt just did to AC.
Fly safe all.

Obviously you don't get it. Canadian pilots working overseas are in different categories.

1. If a Canadian pilot is flying for KLM or Lufthansa, they also have European citizenship and converted their licences to JAA, at a considerable cost and effort. You can eliminate this group, as they are not simply Canadian pilots working there.

2. Canadian pilots working in Asia, Africa, the Middle East, etc, are working as expats where there is a lack of local pilots. Canadians are not taking jobs from locals, and in fact once there are enough trained locals, the Canadians can pretty much expect their time to be up.

3. Canadian pilots historically working in Europe under a reciprocal arrangement with companies like Skyservice and Sunwing go to Europe for three to six months, and a similar number of pilots come to Canada for a similar amount of time. The idea here is a very good one, allowing a full year of employment for pilots here and there, and allows for these companies to properly manage the bubbles with their business plans when comparing summer to winter ops. This avoids layoffs on both sides of the Atlantic, and also allows for a great experience for those who participate in this. The governments on both sides of the Atlantic agree to the reciprocal arrangement, in a form of protectionism of locally sourced jobs.

The problem now is that in the last few years, Canjet, and now Sunwing and Westjet are bringing in far more pilots than what they are sending over (or not sending any at all), which is in contravention of historical reciprocal agreements. Obviously, the government on our side of the Atlantic is no longer protecting our own, and in a time when a lot of our pilots are unemployed, or in the case of Air Transat, are facing layoffs, this is completely unacceptable. You can bet that the UK government wouldn't allow a bunch of Sunwing pilots to go work overseas for Thomas Cook at a time when they are laying off their own.

The free market is a wonderful thing, but as we've seen in the last decade, the erosion of some controls and protection for the little guy has dire consequences. If you were the one getting laid off, only to be replaced by somebody else, you'd be singing a different tune. With less student pilots going through flight school and baby boomers retiring in droves, perhaps we will be in a state of greater equilibrium going forward, but until that is the case, it is irresponsible and disgusting to allow this situation to continue.

[altiplano]

What he said +1.

[jjj]

Does anyone else find it utterly repulsive that the government gives their blessing to companies such as Sunwing and (more importantly) Can Jet to allow them to employ dozens of foreign pilots, while 17 highly qualified TS jet drivers are getting the axe?

I don't care if it's an A310 or 737.

Simply shameful, Canada.

How far along are our friends at CPPC?

Write your MP. Enough is enough, and the least we can do as Canadian pilots is make our voice heard.

Flyincanuck,

What goes around comes around... If Sunwing should not take seasonal foreign pilots then perhaps other countries should not accept seasonal pilots as well. Then several Sunwing pilots could enjoy an annual lay-off just like some of their flight attendants.

Give your head a shake. The situation is more complicated than you understand. If you want to include something useful in a letter to your MP, ask that the Government of Canada stop taxing the airline industry so heavily so that good companies like Transat and everyone else can sustain a viable business.

I feel bad for anyone taking a lay-off or losing a job. We see way too much of it in this business.

[I WAS Birddog]

"I regret the day I learned to read. For it gave me an outsiders view of my own wretched condition for which there is no cure." -Frederick Douglas -"An American Slave" circa 1845

Like cancer, this seasonal tactic by companies is spreading more every year.

Until you ALL kick it old school and pick up the pitch forks....Good luck minions...Great job on giving Harper a majority government.

I'll be in Tibet 3rd hill to the left 1/2 way up where the temp is hovering around +15*C. Just ask for the bald ethnic guy in mauve herding a bunch of yaks.

[Beefitarian]

I'll be in Tibet 3rd hill to the left 1/2 way up where the temp is hovering around +15*C. Just ask for the bald ethnic guy in mauve herding a bunch of yaks.

That sounds pretty good. Can we add some beer, airplanes and motorbikes?

[captbm]

You can bet that the UK government wouldn't allow a bunch of Sunwing pilots to go work overseas for Thomas Cook at a time when they are laying off their own.

Actually this has not been the case, with C3/Skyservice in days past. My own company (UK Major) was laying off and the UK govt. didn't even notice. Nada, my fellow Canadians came over and then Brits got sent over in winter. This is restricted to Charter, and watch this space as TC currently laying off F/D approx 75 if I remember correctly, from the 330 fleet I think.

[Lima Lima]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/touch/st ... id=5769970

[azimuthaviation]

Canadian pilots working in Asia, Africa, the Middle East, etc, are working as expats where there is a lack of local pilots. Canadians are not taking jobs from locals, and in fact once there are enough trained locals, the Canadians can pretty much expect their time to be up.

Why dont Canadian pilots stay here, taking away positions for foreign pilots and the foreign pilots can take up the slack in africa/middle east etc?