Sask Air ambulance job posting

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seniorpumpkin
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Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by seniorpumpkin »

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78029
Can I get a round of applause for Sask Air Ambulance?
:smt038 :smt038
Kudos to these guys for implementing a huge change in the way they operate. Re-writing/certifying everything from the ops manual to the SOP's has got to be a monumental task, I can't even imagine the training and internal culture shift that will take place throughout this transition. I can only presume that the driving force behind this transition is this accident:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=70315&hilit=saskat ... +ambulance
It takes a lot of guts to respond to something like this in such a drastic and positive way. Some would probably say it was overdue, but I would point out that these folks have been doing a great job flying single pilot for many many years.
Also, nice job ad, thank you for actually posting how much pilots will get PAID, nobody else seems to understand that it's important. Plus the salary is pretty darn good in my opinion. Arranging funding for a government program like this is tricky, these guys nailed it!
Best of luck to all those who apply, if successful, It seems like you will be working with smart people.
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FlyGy
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by FlyGy »

seniorpumpkin wrote: I can only presume that the driving force behind this transition is this accident:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=70315&hilit=saskat ... +ambulance
You presume incorrectly, the process toward dual flight crew was initiated back in 2009. I have a couple of friends who've been hired on as F/Os. I expect they'll do well there, I hear they have a very positive work environment there.
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ahramin
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by ahramin »

FlyGy wrote:I hear they have a very positive work environment there.
I hope so. Usually in these situations instead of a 2 crew operation you get a single pilot operation plus an extra guy in the cockpit. You need buy in and enthusiasm for the change from everyone involved, and drivers used to single pilot ops can find it both annoying and very fatiguing dealing with all the extra work involved. When you are used to operating a single pilot airplane single pilot, it's usually a tough sell to convince people that 2 crew is better. I've helped a couple operations do this and they had no idea how much work is involved when they started.
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

ahramin wrote:
FlyGy wrote:I hear they have a very positive work environment there.
I hope so. Usually in these situations instead of a 2 crew operation you get a single pilot operation plus an extra guy in the cockpit. You need buy in and enthusiasm for the change from everyone involved, and drivers used to single pilot ops can find it both annoying and very fatiguing dealing with all the extra work involved. When you are used to operating a single pilot airplane single pilot, it's usually a tough sell to convince people that 2 crew is better. I've helped a couple operations do this and they had no idea how much work is involved when they started.
Interesting comment and not what I expected to read. Is there actually incremental effort involved in working with another pilot on a flight deck? My guess would've been that the extra effort involved to communicate and coordinate effectively would be more than offset by reduced tasking/workload (quite apart from all of the safety benefits of proper CRM). Isn't CRM training part of CPL training? Or is it more complicated/involved to actually implement it once you're actually in a line position? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the issues involved.
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180
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by 180 »

One day off every three weeks? :shock:
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by cdnpilot77 »

180 wrote:One day off every three weeks? :shock:
This argument comes up every time they have an ad, I was wondering how long it would take to come up this time. It is explained in depth several times in several threads that it is an "additional" day off to a regular schedule. Ie: a 3 day weekend every 3 weeks. That is just an example as weekends and schedules may vary but it is an additional day off
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by FlyGy »

cdnpilot77 wrote:
180 wrote:One day off every three weeks? :shock:
This argument comes up every time they have an ad, I was wondering how long it would take to come up this time. It is explained in depth several times in several threads that it is an "additional" day off to a regular schedule. Ie: a 3 day weekend every 3 weeks. That is just an example as weekends and schedules may vary but it is an additional day off
Yup, it's known as an Earned Day Off, or EDO.
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Nemo Africanus
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by Nemo Africanus »

Quote: "......that it is an "additional" day off to a regular schedule."

What is the regular schedule that it is additional to? Are pilots on call 24 hours/day or for only so many hours/day? Do pilots have to be at the airport when on call or may they be within say five or ten minutes of the airport?
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NO LINK*
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by NO LINK* »

The shifts are 12 hours long and the pilots are expected to remain at base during that time. Short coffee breaks are permissible with carraige of cellphone/pager. The schedule sees a pilot work 28 - 12 hour shifts over a 9 week period. This averages out to 37.33 hours/week. The difference between this, and a 40 hour work week, generates an EDO every three weeks.

Half of these shifts are scheduled in the dark, although mutual trades are common. Any work in addition to the schedule is paid overtime.
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2.5milefinal
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by 2.5milefinal »

2 crew CRM can be very difficult for some pilots. Specially some of the older ones :)
I have also have been involved with attempting to convert a high time single-pilot to 2 crew.
In one case it did not work. He simply could not work with other people/pilots in 'his'
cockpit.
A lot of the times its not as easy as one may think...what is, in this biss??
Anyway, I am sure these guys have and will get/keep things going in the right direction.
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by Joe Blow Schmo »

NO LINK* wrote:The shifts are 12 hours long and the pilots are expected to remain at base during that time. Short coffee breaks are permissible with carraige of cellphone/pager. The schedule sees a pilot work 28 - 12 hour shifts over a 9 week period. This averages out to 37.33 hours/week. The difference between this, and a 40 hour work week, generates an EDO every three weeks.

Half of these shifts are scheduled in the dark, although mutual trades are common. Any work in addition to the schedule is paid overtime.
That's pretty good. So that's 28 days of work and 35 days off every 63. So if you get called out late in your 12 hour shift and don't get back until after it has expired, you get paid OT for the extra?
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by NO LINK* »

OT and in some cases a paid meal. If you are a really good boy you might even get your plane put away for you too.
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ahramin
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by ahramin »

YYZSaabGuy wrote:Interesting comment and not what I expected to read. Is there actually incremental effort involved in working with another pilot on a flight deck? My guess would've been that the extra effort involved to communicate and coordinate effectively would be more than offset by reduced tasking/workload (quite apart from all of the safety benefits of proper CRM). Isn't CRM training part of CPL training? Or is it more complicated/involved to actually implement it once you're actually in a line position? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the issues involved.
I have heard of schools doing CRM training during the CPL and it sounds like they are doing an honest job of trying to tackle the issue. I'm haven't seen enough to comment on how successful their efforts are.

The thing about small turboprops is they are all designed to be operated by one pilot flying in the left seat. While the ergonomics of some 30 year old turboprops left enough to be desired, new King Air 200s like Lifeguard operates have excellent autopilots, FMS, and flight instruments that result in a workload that is easy for 1 pilot to manage under all normal circumstances. Even in busy airspace a properly prepared and proficient pilot simply doesn't have to work that hard to get from A to B.

When you add a second pilot, a few things get much easier. Taxiing around on the ground is where I find the greatest benefit to 2 crew operations. You can taxi sooner, rarely have to stop the airplane for cockpit tasks, and the benefit of having a second person checking what you are doing is immediate and obvious. I can get off the ground in 3 to 5 minutes faster with 2 pilots, even with the time it takes for a good takeoff briefing. Working 2 radio frequencies is another good example of things becoming easier. Circling in mountainous terrain is something I simply will not do single pilot.

Other tasks get far more complicated. The simple act of putting the flaps down becomes far more complicated with little benefit. With 1 pilot, you want the flaps down, you put the flaps down. In some cases you may have to make a point of checking the speed but in most cases you know what the speed is already and just reach over and put the flaps down. With 2 pilots, it seems silly for the PM to sit on their hands and do nothing so you write an SOP to have the PM manipulate the switch. It usually looks something like this:

PF: Flap down.
PM: Speed checked, selected.
PM: Flap set down.

A whole lot of talking with, I would argue, zero benefit. While it's possible that the PF has called for the flaps at too high a speed, in 1500 hours of single pilot operation I've never made this mistake. It just doesn't take 2 pilots to move a flap lever on a King Air. But when you have 2 pilots it becomes a 10 second process. Add in some radio work at the wrong time and you end up in a situation where you can't put the flaps down because you can't get the required talking done.

I could list many, many more situations where a simple task for 1 pilot becomes an involved process of communicating, cross checking, and co-ordinating for 2 pilots. Go arounds; approach briefings; engine failures, all require well thought out and practiced SOPs just to ensure we don't get a decrease in safety, let alone an increase.

2 crew can increase safety, no doubt about it. The difficulty in actually getting that increase in safety is considerable though. Good SOPs are rare. When was the last time you listened to an entire approach briefing without tuning out for a while or being distracted by something else to the point where you weren't listening any more? In my career I've only met 2 pilots who had an actual talent for keeping both pilots on the same page. I'm definitely not one of them. The workload added by having to continuously ensure that the other pilot has the same mental picture as you, including SOP calls; effective briefings; and discussions is far greater than the reduction in workload of having someone to talk on the radio and move some switches for you. Senior management needs to do an excellent job of selling the benefits while reducing the negatives as much as possible. Otherwise you don't get any buy-in from the line pilots and you're spending a whole bunch more money without getting a systematic increase in safety for it.
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by Joe Blow Schmo »

This comes from the Saskatchewan government air ambulance website http://www.health.gov.sk.ca/flight-crew-qualifications (my bolding):
Flight Crew Qualifications
Saskatchewan Air Ambulance flight crew members must meet the following qualifications:
Trained in aviation physiology and the air medical transportation of patients through the Canadian Association of Aero-medical Transportation Systems (CAATS).
Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) providers.
Trauma resuscitation and management.
Neonatal Resuscitation Program.
Current active registration in relevant professional associations.
Flight nurses average of 10 years critical care experience.
Pilots have extensive experience in bush flying, are airline transport-rated and endorsed for flying the Cheyenne aircraft.
Total flying time is over 59,000 hours with the least number of hours for any one pilot being 10,000 hours.
Pilots are trained in aeromedicine.
Considering they're only asking for 3000 hours for the captain and 1200 for the FO, I'm assuming that's either a typo or an 'embellishment"
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by FlyGy »

As mentioned in other threads regarding this topic on this forum, that's a combined total for all the pilots that were flying at that time, note the date the web page was written. The pilots of the day were all high hour pilots and as it states, none were less than 10,000 hour pilots. Times have changed though.
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Re: Sask Air ambulance job posting

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

ahramin wrote:
YYZSaabGuy wrote:Interesting comment and not what I expected to read. Is there actually incremental effort involved in working with another pilot on a flight deck? My guess would've been that the extra effort involved to communicate and coordinate effectively would be more than offset by reduced tasking/workload (quite apart from all of the safety benefits of proper CRM). Isn't CRM training part of CPL training? Or is it more complicated/involved to actually implement it once you're actually in a line position? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the issues involved.
I have heard of schools doing CRM training during the CPL and it sounds like they are doing an honest job of trying to tackle the issue. I'm haven't seen enough to comment on how successful their efforts are.

The thing about small turboprops is they are all designed to be operated by one pilot flying in the left seat. While the ergonomics of some 30 year old turboprops left enough to be desired, new King Air 200s like Lifeguard operates have excellent autopilots, FMS, and flight instruments that result in a workload that is easy for 1 pilot to manage under all normal circumstances. Even in busy airspace a properly prepared and proficient pilot simply doesn't have to work that hard to get from A to B.

When you add a second pilot, a few things get much easier. Taxiing around on the ground is where I find the greatest benefit to 2 crew operations. You can taxi sooner, rarely have to stop the airplane for cockpit tasks, and the benefit of having a second person checking what you are doing is immediate and obvious. I can get off the ground in 3 to 5 minutes faster with 2 pilots, even with the time it takes for a good takeoff briefing. Working 2 radio frequencies is another good example of things becoming easier. Circling in mountainous terrain is something I simply will not do single pilot.

Other tasks get far more complicated. The simple act of putting the flaps down becomes far more complicated with little benefit. With 1 pilot, you want the flaps down, you put the flaps down. In some cases you may have to make a point of checking the speed but in most cases you know what the speed is already and just reach over and put the flaps down. With 2 pilots, it seems silly for the PM to sit on their hands and do nothing so you write an SOP to have the PM manipulate the switch. It usually looks something like this:

PF: Flap down.
PM: Speed checked, selected.
PM: Flap set down.

A whole lot of talking with, I would argue, zero benefit. While it's possible that the PF has called for the flaps at too high a speed, in 1500 hours of single pilot operation I've never made this mistake. It just doesn't take 2 pilots to move a flap lever on a King Air. But when you have 2 pilots it becomes a 10 second process. Add in some radio work at the wrong time and you end up in a situation where you can't put the flaps down because you can't get the required talking done.

I could list many, many more situations where a simple task for 1 pilot becomes an involved process of communicating, cross checking, and co-ordinating for 2 pilots. Go arounds; approach briefings; engine failures, all require well thought out and practiced SOPs just to ensure we don't get a decrease in safety, let alone an increase.

2 crew can increase safety, no doubt about it. The difficulty in actually getting that increase in safety is considerable though. Good SOPs are rare. When was the last time you listened to an entire approach briefing without tuning out for a while or being distracted by something else to the point where you weren't listening any more? In my career I've only met 2 pilots who had an actual talent for keeping both pilots on the same page. I'm definitely not one of them. The workload added by having to continuously ensure that the other pilot has the same mental picture as you, including SOP calls; effective briefings; and discussions is far greater than the reduction in workload of having someone to talk on the radio and move some switches for you. Senior management needs to do an excellent job of selling the benefits while reducing the negatives as much as possible. Otherwise you don't get any buy-in from the line pilots and you're spending a whole bunch more money without getting a systematic increase in safety for it.
Thanks for the detailed reply, Ahramin - much appreciated and I learned from it. Interesting that embedding CRM on an airplane designed for single-pilot operation gets complicated despite it being the norm inthe airline transport world. Presumably this is because an A320 (as an example) was not designed for single-pilot operation, unlike your King Air.
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