ADS-B Coverage? Moving map weather for ipad

[DanWEC]

Anyone here have working experience with the ADS-B coverage in Canada? Primarily SW Ontario.
Judging by this from NavCanada:
http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefiniti ... /ADS-B.jpg
and this from the FAA
http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/flashMap/index.cfm
It looks good. Havn't heard much about the system before until researching recently.

I'm looking for a realtime weather capable moving map solution for the iPad. WingX Pro7 is nice but not sure about Canadian content. Their charts are provided by Seattle Avionics. Unfamiliar with them.

[True North]

Last time I checked, ADS-B was only in use around Hudsons Bay. It is not yet in use in SW Ont or anywhere in the U.S. and is not expected to be until about 2020.

A technical point, ADS-B is not radar - it is to replace radar.

[DanWEC]

Last time I checked, ADS-B was only in use around Hudsons Bay. It is not yet in use in SW Ont or anywhere in the U.S. and is not expected to be until about 2020.

A technical point, ADS-B is not radar - it is to replace radar.

It looks like the Hudson bay area was a proposed ADS-B expansion area, (see first link)
Sounds like an interesting program to supply a datalink to all aircraft.
Side note- It seems that Foreflight has Canadian Charts, and a weather overlay that I could get from an XM receiver. Any thoughts?

[PanEuropean]

I flew across Hudson Bay (Churchill to Broughton Island) last year about this time, using an aircraft that was ADS-B out equipped.

The controllers that I spoke to enroute told me that they could not see the aircraft.

I subsequently called NavCanada to inquire, and was told that monitoring of aircraft in the Hudson Bay region via ADS-B was limited to those operators who had 'registered' with NavCanada for this service. The NavCanada employee could not elaborate further, but I was given the general idea that 'non-registered' ADS-B emissions were filtered out of the system and not even presented to the controllers at the other end.

It is possible that this might have been a temporary policy - perhaps because the monitoring system was fairly new at that time, and NavCanada was in the process of validating it for a specific purpose (monitoring airline traffic coming over the pole) and during that validation process, they did not want to see a lot of clutter from aircraft outside of that group.

I haven't paid much attention to deployment of ADS-B services in Canada since then, but based on my experience, I think that we (potential beneficiaries of this service) need to read NavCanada's information releases quite carefully to find out exactly what service they are offering, and when it will be offered. In other words, it would be wrong to assume that just because an ADS-B monitoring facility is set up and we have ADS-B out equipment on board, we can assume that we are being observed.

Michael

[Vickers vanguard]

I flew across
The controllers that I spoke to enroute told me that they could not see the aircraft.

I subsequently called NavCanada to inquire, and was told that monitoring of aircraft in the Hudson Bay region via ADS-B was limited to those operators who had 'registered' with NavCanada for this service.
Michael

very useful info panEuropean ! thanks for sharing......care to mention what type of avionic suite your airplane was equipped with. I'm more interested in the make and model of your transponder but the avionic suite would be enough.

[SAR_YQQ]

and a weather overlay that I could get from an XM receiver. Any thoughts?

Expensive is what first comes to mind. Some navigators down here have done the research and found that the antennae assembly and associative hardware would run the user $1000-$1500.

[Sulako]

I'm not familiar with ADS-B, but we recently bought an XM receiver for our ipads - it's the Mobile Link bundle through Baron avionics, and it is supported by the Foreflight HD app. It gives us airborne weather through the ipad.

The hardware cost $1124, and the xm sub is $50 / month. We also got the georeferenced charts and the Nav Canada approach charts for foreflight, which total $300 / year.

The US charts are also through Seattle avionics, and they look just like the US NOAA approach charts, except they also put the airplane on the actual charts while you are flying the approach, which is pretty cool. The NavCanada charts are NOT georeferenced yet, but Foreflight says they are working on that.


It replaces an older tablet PC we used that ran the WSI xm airborne program - the old tablet and the old XM receiver cost us about 18k in 2006, so clearly technology is getting cheaper


Hardware: https://www.wxworx.com/shop/aviation/mo ... gory_id=31

software: http://www.foreflight.com/ipad


It does some pretty cool stuff, including showing us fuel prices, drawing out sigmets, showing pireps, metars, tafs, radar, satellite imagery, upper winds, etc.

[CL-Skadoo!]

Last time I checked, ADS-B was only in use around Hudsons Bay. It is not yet in use in SW Ont or anywhere in the U.S. and is not expected to be until about 2020.

A technical point, ADS-B is not radar - it is to replace radar.

ADS-B is currently being utilized in a few places throughout the United States. Alaska, Florida & the Gulf of Mexico come to mind, although its developmental. I've had the opportunity to test it and its outstanding.

[PanEuropean]

...care to mention what type of avionic suite your airplane was equipped with. I'm more interested in the make and model of your transponder but the avionic suite would be enough.

It was a DHC-6 (Twin Otter) Series 400, equipped with the Honeywell Primus Apex avionics suite that is standard equipment on the Series 400 Twin Otters. Apex is, basically, 'baby Epic'. The transponders are KXP 2290. Honeywell describes the transponder as follows:

The KXP 2290 is a Mode S Transponder that is capable of non-diversity or diversity operation. The KXP 2290 Mode S Transponder is designed to meet TSO-C112, ETSO-2C112a for a Class 2A ATCRBS/Mode Select Airborne Transponder System. It replies to ATCRBS Mode A and C, Intermode, and Mode S interrogations. The only current KXP 2290 installation option is as a part of the APEX system. The KXP 2290 is blind-mounted and shares a mounting rack with the KMC 2210 APEX controller.

Since the KXP 2290 is a Class 2A transponder, it can handle Comm A & Comm B Mode S data link protocols. The KXP 2290 is compliant with TSO-C112 Class 2A and ETSO-2C112a requirements. The EUROCAE ED-73B transponder functionality is Level 2 (Surveillance and Comm A/B) and the marking is level 2s. Additionally the ED-73B defined class is "CLASS 1". The KXP 2290 is also designed to meet the Enhanced Surveillance mandated in Europe.

Michael

DHC-6 400 Avionics

[Rockie]

Last time I checked, ADS-B was only in use around Hudsons Bay. It is not yet in use in SW Ont or anywhere in the U.S. and is not expected to be until about 2020.

A technical point, ADS-B is not radar - it is to replace radar.

ADS-B is currently being utilized in a few places throughout the United States. Alaska, Florida & the Gulf of Mexico come to mind, although its developmental. I've had the opportunity to test it and its outstanding.

The US is aiming for full implementation of ADS-B throughout the NAS system by 2013. On January 1st 2020 full compliance is mandatory for any aircraft flying through Class A,B,C and select Class E airspace.

[ogopogo]

Check this out -- all ADS-B based...

http://planefinder.net/

[Vickers vanguard]

Since the KXP 2290 is a Class 2A transponder, it can handle Comm A & Comm B Mode S data link protocols.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, the information above was what i was looking for. Nice cockpit by the way.

[PanEuropean]

...Nice cockpit by the way.

Thank you - I'm the guy who designed it.

Michael

[swordfish]

Well not surprising you have authoritative information on the subject! Thanks for the info...very informative.

[CID]

ADS-B is a complicated subject. It will be mandated in the US by 2020 but the "standard" used in the US is different than the standard currently being used in the Hudson Bay ADS-B airspace. Furthermore, Canada hasn't made a definitive move to mandate equipage. There are just too many issues to consider including the huge investment of the equipment in the Hudson Bay that already doesn't meet the US mandated standard. And there's UAT. It's only available in US airspace and you need to be a US resident to obtain a legal subscription to the service. (At least that's what I've been told)

Furthermore, the ADS-B in the Twin Otter above was likely not the "Extended Squitter Transponder" type. It was more likely the UAT (Universal Access Transceiver) type which smaller aircraft use in the US and UAT is not "seen" by the system in the Hudson Bay.

You have to be pretty careful with the weather information you get from ADS-B or XM as it's not "real time". There have already been some incidents and accidents attributed to this potentially fatal mistake.

ADS-B, which is part of the NextGen technology and FANS are slowly being implemented but nobody can agree on a standard so its a bit of a mess. There's a "Boeing" standard and an Airbus standard for FANS and they aren't compatible. There is a FANS A/B that can work with both but even that has a "+" option that adds additional constraints!

My advice? Stay away unless you absolutely have to have it and only once the actual permanent standard is established.

[Vickers vanguard]

I think the KXP 2290 XPDR was not ADS-B out capable back in Dec 2010 (Just didn't have a DF17 out capability ) doesn't matter what DO260 version we're dealing with.... the above crossing took place around that time, correct. Did the airplane have an UAT ? hard to say, I am not familiar with avionic suite.

[CID]

Just remember that UAT doesn't work outside of the US airspace.