Mandatory Retirement Repeal Passes 2nd Reading in Parliament

[Morry Bund]

If it was as abysmally one sided as you fly till you die guys think, it would have been solved YEARS ago.

I will grant you that. You are dead right on that when it comes to Air Canada's and ACPA's ability to spin the legal processes out so that the inevitable is delayed. At great cost and at great risk.

Do you for one minute now believe that mandatory retirement won't be repealed by next December 15th?

Do you seriously believe that either the Tribunal or the Courts, once the wingy July decision is reviewed by the Court, are going to say that Air Canada has the legal right, by reason of a BFOR defence, to fire both First Officers and RPs?

Do you seriously believe that Air Canada and ACPA are some sort of island in the sun for young pilots only, and that they both can continue to deny what is happening both in this country and around the world with the outlawing of age restrictions? Will Air Canada be able to show that it will suffer undue hardship if so much as once single Captain remains employed after age 60? Or two pilots? Or ten pilots? Or 100 pilots? 1500, maybe. But not 200.

If we are intransigent in our determination that the outcome is inevitable, are you not just as intransigent in refusing to see any weakness in your union's position, or in refusing to consider the accumulating liability to you and all others, should your union lose this epic battle to preserve the status quo and delay the inevitable at any cost?

[vic777]

Could retirements stop next December?.

Let's call this outcome "A"

Could AC win the BFOR case and retirements continue at 60?

Let's call this outcome "B"

Now just to humour you, let's say the probability for either outcome is 50/50.
My question is this, if we get outcome "A", does ACPA have any plan of action, or do we get totally hosed by AC?
Hmmm, what does past performance suggest?

Well anyways, this is all a year away ... no need to get our knickers in a twist now.


But if the outcome is not 50/50 but 100/0 do we look stupid?

Ya gotta realize that even if there is an BFOR argument being heard, the Pilots will be staying on Past 60 come next December. AC and ACPA can't stop it with BOGUS arguments.

[Rockie]

Your failure to acknowledge that there's a possibility that things won't proceed exactly as you plan, makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

I didn't plan anything, but things are proceeding exactly as predicted. The demise of mandatory retirement has always been inevitable and now it's happened (see thread above this one). All ACPA has done is delay it and in the process expose the pilots to much, much more financial liability which is exactly what I've been consistently arguing to avoid for years now.

Assuming you know the law has changed, what exactly is going to happen in the next year that will save Air Canada from having to comply with it? Is it a BFOR ruling upholding age 60 that you're pinning all your hopes on? Are you thinking the government will create a human rights exemption zone around Air Canada?

[Ah_yeah]

Wow, you guys are getting drunk a little early don't you think ? It's a seven game series me thinks. Game, being the operative word.

[Norwegianwood]

Wow, you guys are getting drunk a little early don't you think ? It's a seven game series me thinks. Game, being the operative word.

Ah_yeah.............. that's Ah_NO

The ink is still drying on a law that has just been enacted in this fair land and to change it will take "An ACT of Parliament" signed by HRH. A large movement of 800,000 people are affected not just you. Time to educate yourself!

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISInfo/BillDet ... 722&View=0

[Rockie]

Wow, you guys are getting drunk a little early don't you think ? It's a seven game series me thinks. Game, being the operative word.

The debate is over and Canadian Law has been changed. A simple fact that only Air Canada pilots could pretend didn't happen.

[sepia]

Air Canada twice got it's workers legislated back to work under some pretty dubious scenarios this year. Is it impossible that they could get an exemption? I realize that would rain on your told you so party, but could you guys be wrong one more time?

[vic777]

Wow, you guys are getting drunk a little early don't you think ? It's a seven game series me thinks. Game, being the operative word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo

[Rockie]

Air Canada twice got it's workers legislated back to work under some pretty dubious scenarios this year. Is it impossible that they could get an exemption? I realize that would rain on your told you so party, but could you guys be wrong one more time?

The federal government finally amended Canadian Law to specifically eliminate that exemption to the human rights legislation thereby catching up to what every province and territory did a long time ago. This isn't some quick temporary back to work legislation or procedural trick to delay a strike for a few days. Furthermore the government is looking much farther ahead than you are recognizing the aging demographic and the strain it will put on the health care apparatus and pension plans throughout the country.

You can view this from any angle using whatever colour filter you like and it doesn't change this one fundamental fact. Mandatory retirement is now dead in the federal sector in line with the other 95% of the workers in this country.

This is not a case of I told you so. This is a case of FINALLY recognizing what you should have seen years ago. Cease fighting this war you have now definitively lost and get on with the job of adapting to the new reality.

We are already at least six years late in amending our working conditions to accommodate this change. We are negotiating a contract that will take us well past the implementation date of this law and have done zilch by way of incorporating this change in our thinking. We have accumulated potentially huge financial liabilities in the cases before the CHRT, and if we continue to force retire pilots over the next year will add even more. Every pilot that gets reinstated creates disproportionate disruption and cost as they are returned to their former place on the seniority list or receive a settlement if there is no room.

We gain nothing except more damage to the pilot group by continuing along this path.