Crash @ North Spirit Lake Ont (4 dead, 1 survivor)

[Kzanol]

How can I find the Pireps from this morning?

[grimey]

GFA for 18Z, a few hours after the accident. Couldn't get the 12Z ones as too much time had passed.

[jona]

I am shocked and sad and angry right now. A 3000 foot ceiling and moderate icing. Just stay home.
I knew one of the PAX personally. They built a new hanger at YAV recently , but it is pretty well known what the problems are there.
Every company and pilot should know it isn't worth pushing the weather to make a few extra cents.

Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than being in the air and wishing you were on the ground.
Editted by Bandaid

[Prairie Chicken]

My condolences to all affected. I am so sorry to see the new year starting this way.

Did I read that media report right about the name of the spokesman??? Some of you from Central Region may remember that name.

[tsgas]

TC only pulls AOC after tragedies... See Aeropro's BE10 crash.

So, running out of gas and pan caking it onto a street in Winnipeg resulting in a death, wouldn't count as a tragedy? Or, was that a "mulligan"?

Doc didn't they run out of gas TWICE ? The first crash was in a in YWG park with no dead . Then later a second crash resulting in the death of an American tourist.

[Bede]

I hate to say it but you can have all the SMS, TC oversight, regulations you want but if management still does not promote a culture of safety, it's of no use.

Throw the Arlt's in jail.

[flyinthebug]

My condolences to all affected. I am so sorry to see the new year starting this way.

Did I read that media report right about the name of the spokesman??? Some of you from Central Region may remember that name.

PC...Out of respect for the family members that may read this, ill just say yes I do know that name and was SHOCKED to see him listed as their Ops Mgr. Fucking SCARY shit!

Im always the first one to chastize someone for posting speculation in a thread like this one where 4 lives were lost. BUT, I have to say Doc and the others all have this one right. Keystone should have been shut down after the 1st accident. They didnt even get shut down after their 2nd (and as has been noted, that had a fatality, and the pilot was charged)...so please tell me HOW the hell this air service *cough* has an AOC?

As we learn more, I believe we will be even more outraged! This has to stop!

Im sincerely sorry to those family members that may be reading this. It is tragic when we lose someone...and even more tragic when it was clearly preventable.

As I recall, the owner of Keystone was guilty of telling the pilot that ran outta fuel and crashed in YWG, that he had done that trip 1000 times and if he took "x" amount of fuel, it would be enough. Somehow that got watered down and pawned off on the CP at the time...but make no mistake, this accident was 100% preventable...If someone even read the GFA ...icing and low ceilings = dont fly!

Rant over... Im just like many others and angry as hell about this one!

RIP
Fly safe & SMART all
FTB

[razorblade]

A little bit of Google tells you about the Ops Mgr's past. I'm surprised he decided to work for Keystone- i'm sure he knew the history.

[gapper]

It appears to me that all the young little pilots must have heard that a pilot in Manitoba got fired last week for returning due to icing and U/S prop deice in a Cessna Caravan. Is this a proper time to slag criminal operators? YESSS!!!
I would also like to slag gutless pilots that would go out with that kind of forecast. You cannot have a s@#t operations without s@#t pilots. TURN AROUND!!!!

[cdnpilot77]

This guy is truly unbelieveable...already trying to cover his own ass!! Ripping up their AOC isn't enough, these guys need to be made an example of!!


http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/natio ... ice=mobile

Residents of a remote Ontario reserve tried to douse the flames of the burning wreckage of a plane with snow, but could only save one of the five people trapped inside. Now, the First Nations community of 400 is in mourning as it tries to come to grips with the devastating crash that claimed the lives of neighbours and friends.
The Piper PA 31 Navajo plane was heading from St. Andrews, Manitoba to North Spirit Lake Reserve, about 400 kilometres north of Dryden, Ont. It crashed onto a frozen lake around 10 a.m. Tuesday inside the community, mere minutes away from the airport.
Residents of the remote fly-in reserve in the area heard the plane circling and making “put-put” sounds right before the crash. Some witnesses say that the plane blew up on impact, ejecting some people and while other reports say some passangers remained trapped inside.
Those who raced to the site crash watched helplessly, throwing snow at the plane as they tried to douse the flames, said Eric Feldman, a local school official. Others tried to put the flames to break the ice to pump water from the lake onto the burning plane, he said.
Darcy Keesick, who was one of the first residents to see the burning wreckage through the blizzard enveloping their reserve. He rushed to help and later took some of the victim’s bodies to a local nursing station. But he was too traumatized to speak in detail about the crash.
“It was just too horrible. I could hear screams,” he said, before putting down the phone.
“We don’t have any emergency equipment here, so they used whatever they could,” he said, adding the plane fire is now out.
Although victim names have not been officially confirmed, Mr. Feldman says the daughter and grandson of a kindergarten teacher at the reserve died in the crash. Shayne Rae, a volunteer at the North Spirit Lake Band Council, also said his cousin was one of the four killed. A band worker, Martha Campbell, was also among the dead, said band council member Maggie Kakegamic.
Ontario Provincial Police Sergeant Rob McDonough said the victims included two males and two females, but cannot be named until next of kin have been notified. One of the males, the pilot died as a result of his injuries. The survivor was treated for burns at the local nursing station and later airlifted to Winnipeg.
Ms. Kakegamic said her friend was that lone survivor.
“I went and saw him [the survivor],” she said. “He said, ‘I’ll be OK.’ I hope he is. He’s one of our workers. They’re monitoring him right now.”
The community is now “in mourning” as they wait for officials to make their way into North Spirit Lake.
“Everything is shut down and people are just devastated,” he said. “No one knows what to do. People are crying and the school is closed.”
Several community members said the blizzard conditions Tuesday morning were not safe for landing, but the Transportation Safety Board of Canada says it’s too early to say what went wrong. It’s sending two investigators, who are expected to arrive at the reserve on Wednesday.
George Riopka, spokesman for Keystone Air Service, which was operating the flight, said details are still sketchy and can’t say if the weather or mechanical failure were issues. “The weather was flyable,” he said, adding they only have general weather information for the area that includes North Spirit Lake.
The airline is providing grief counselling for the victims’ families and will wait for the Transportation Safety Board of Canada to conclude its investigation, he said.
Previously, Transport Canada had suspended Keystone's air operator certificate for two weeks in 2004 over “significant safety concerns with the company's maintenance management system.”
After implementing a safety management system approved by Transport Canada, Mr. Riopka told the Winnipeg Free Press in 2005 that Keystone in “the safest small airline in the province right now.”
Then in 2007, a Keystone Air Service pilot was convicted of dangerous operation of an air craft, as well as criminal negligence causing death and bodily harm. Mark Tayfel was flying six U.S. tourists from a northern hunting lodge in a Keystone Air plane in June 2002 when it crashed in Winnipeg. Initially, Mr. Tayfel was hailed as a hero for making the emergency landing with no fatalities, but he was later charged when it was found he had taken off without enough fuel to fly safely. One of the passengers, 79-year-old Chester Jones, died of his injuries three months after the crash.

[Doc]

It appears to me that all the young little pilots must have heard that a pilot in Manitoba got fired last week for returning due to icing and U/S prop deice in a Cessna Caravan. Is this a proper time to slag criminal operators? YESSS!!!

Seriously? Name names. Lets slag these maggots!

[grimey]

http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local ... nnipegHome

Sounds like the 1 survivor will be ok. Broken ankle and facial fractures. I hope like hell he was paying attention during the flight and remembers what happened.

[126.7Spam]

The last TWO DAYS IN A ROW had PIREPS from C208 drivers returning to YRL because of Icing and "WALL OF CLOUDS" WTF are you guys doing out in that SHIT?

[cdnpilot77]

Sounds like the 1 survivor will be ok. Broken ankle and facial fractures. I hope like hell he was paying attention during the flight and remembers what happened.

Get well soon!!

[Cat Driver]

WTF are you guys doing out in that SHIT?

Maybe company culture?

Of course we don't really know what caused it yet.

George Riopka, spokesman for Keystone Air Service, which was operating the flight, said details are still sketchy and can’t say if the weather or mechanical failure were issues. “The weather was flyable,” he said,

I wonder if they will have to reset this clock?

After implementing a safety management system approved by Transport Canada, Mr. Riopka told the Winnipeg Free Press in 2005 that Keystone in “the safest small airline in the province right now.”

[Les Habitants]

Can someone please email me the name of the pilot? I heard a rumor of who it was and fear it was a friend of mine.

[Gravy]

RIP to those involved, so sad and so preventable. Wx was not good at all in NorMan this morning...

Could some one pm me crew, i as well have a friend there...

[Bede]

Does anyone else think that Keystone managed to keep their AOC was because their Ops Manager used to be head of enforcement at TC.

Sorry is it groundhog day?
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5529

[flyinthebug]

Does anyone else think that Keystone managed to keep their AOC was because their Ops Manager used to be head of enforcement at TC.

Im glad someone had the balls to point out this FACT.
+1 Bede

[Les Habitants]

Does anyone else think that Keystone managed to keep their AOC was because their Ops Manager used to be head of enforcement at TC.

It was a simple matter of Cliff pointing the finger back at TC and saying "well you do regular audits on my company, and you haven't found anything wrong. So are you saying you aren't doing your job correctly?" Could there have been other factors? Possibly. Fast Air did the same thing (though Fast Air is nothing alike to what Keystone is now, they really seemed to have cleaned up their act which is great) when they were in trouble.

I'll bet you Cliff and his son are both pee-ing their pants right now.

Best wishes to all my fellow pilots at that company.

[CLguy]

Wow 2 tragedies on the same day. They maybe a world apart but the feelings are the same.

Condolences to the families and friends for your loss.

Welcome to 2012!

[Doc]

Does anyone else think that Keystone managed to keep their AOC was because their Ops Manager used to be head of enforcement at TC.

What better way to intimidate young pilots?

Tastless remarks removed
Bandaid

[cdnpilot77]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't someone, I believe it was Cat Driver, bring up a few names of companies just in the last few days or a week, which included this company, as "just a matter of time" accidents waiting to happen?

[jona]

If someone knows the name of the pilot , please PM me. I heard it was a former flight instructor friend of mine.

[razorblade]

If someone knows the name of the pilot , please PM me. I heard it was a former flight instructor friend of mine.

That's exactly who I've heard it was too.