Criminal Record Question

[KB24]

Hi,
I was wondering if you all could give me some advice?
My dilemma is that I will be finishing my commercial license roughly a year from now. I was wondering how a DUI affects employment in aviation? I will be pursuing a pardon as soon as I become eligible, but this may take 3-5 years(depending on a new bill the government is destined to pass).
My intent is to work as a dockhand to start. Bush flying is what I always wanted to do, but how will most operators look at my indiscretion when hiring? I assure you that my mistake is not a reflection of my character. I'm very employable, personable and have some experience on floats. If I were to take time off from pursuing a flying career after I graduated from my flight program while I was waiting for the pardon to process, how does the employer look at this(I would of course keep my licenses current or work on additional ratings)?
I understand that you may think that there are people more deserving of the few jobs we have available then some knucklehead who drives drunk. I'm paying the price. But I assure you that this was an isolated incident and my ass is staying clean from here forward because nothing means more to me than achieving my dream. Luckily I have the support of a great family, but they lack knowledge in these areas. I hope this thread stays on point and doesn't turn into a lecture. I'm living with the optimism that all is not lost, but I know that I have made my life immensely more difficult. I'm just hoping maybe someone could throw me some possible scenarios or perhaps been through a similar situation. Working on the ramp is probably out of the question, but what are the possibilities of instructing or, my preference, getting on the dock?
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[spaner]

It's a non issue. Unless you apply for a government job, but should be taken care of by then.
Passes are not a problem, sub contracts are not a problem. Don't ever lie on any paperwork.
Use the sect. quoating if you have to. (contravention of section CC:334.2...etc)
Don't ever mention it again.

[Meatservo]

No-one will ask. You won't bother bringing it up because no-one cares.

Some time later in your career if you need to fly to the states it might come up at the border if you haven't been pardoned, and maybe if you ever have to act as a crewmember on a flight carrying a member of the Royal family or something, you may have to tick "yes" on a form or something, but for now, to be a dockhand and a commercial pilot, no-one is even going to ask. And it's none of their business, either. So stop worrying.

But do get that pardon, then you can forget about the whole thing. I'll refrain from any pedantic advice about not doing that again, because you already said you weren't going to.

[spaner]

Thanks for that little reminder,

DO NOT EVER CROSS THE US BORDER

Not until you have that pardon and then + 6 months.

If they ever get your info they will never let it go and you will be getting waivers every 5 years @700us a pop for the rest of your life.

[cncpc]

A DUI does not stop you from entering the United States.

In Canada, your sentence is that given by the courts. When you have served that sentence, paid the fine, whatever it is, that is the end of it. There is no legal, approved, sanction that employers may meet out to punish you further, although we are aware on here that some employers ask about criminal records and some refuse work because of it. The majority of Canadians have committed criminal offences, probably the same one you have. Only a few get a record. Take what you will from that.

It is a felony that stops you from entering the US. We don't have that here, but our equivalent is an indictable offence. Some minor offences like drug possession can keep you out, and you can be kept out for no offence at all, for instance, advocating the legalization of marijuana.

Anyways as people say, drunk driving is a serious offence and many people die every year because of it. It doesn't keep you out of the States though.

Which, I suppose, is odd, but good luck.

Nobody I've ever heard of puts criminal record on their resume. At least not a resume I've ever seen and I've seen hundreds. It's like not putting somebody as a reference that would say you're a total idiot.

Generally, your serious offenders don't become pilots.

[azimuthaviation]

A DUI does not stop you from entering the United States.

In Canada, your sentence is that given by the courts. When you have served that sentence, paid the fine, whatever it is, that is the end of it. There is no legal, approved, sanction that employers may meet out to punish you further, although we are aware on here that some employers ask about criminal records and some refuse work because of it. The majority of Canadians have committed criminal offences, probably the same one you have. Only a few get a record. Take what you will from that.

It is a felony that stops you from entering the US. We don't have that here, but our equivalent is an indictable offence. Some minor offences like drug possession can keep you out, and you can be kept out for no offence at all, for instance, advocating the legalization of marijuana.

Anyways as people say, drunk driving is a serious offence and many people die every year because of it. It doesn't keep you out of the States though.

Which, I suppose, is odd, but good luck.

Nobody I've ever heard of puts criminal record on their resume. At least not a resume I've ever seen and I've seen hundreds. It's like not putting somebody as a reference that would say you're a total idiot.

Generally, your serious offenders don't become pilots.

Umm... NO!!

A DUI doesnt exist in Canada, thats an American term, not in the canadian criminal code. The original poster should be better aware of what he is charged with/convicted of as well as the ramifications.

It is a criminal offence, a federal offence and does not drop off your record when the fine is paid and suspension is completed. The only way to have that stricken from your record is to apply for a pardon.

And its not only felonies that keep you out of the states. Especially since canada does not have felonies either. You can be charged with a summary or an indictable offence. the respective american terms are misdemeanor and felony, neither of which are canadian.

[KB24]

Hey guys. Thank you immensely for the advice and positive feedback.
It's absolutely imperative that I don't cross the border or even attempt to stopover in a US city enroute as once I'm in the US system, that's it. And they don't recognize pardons. They may let me in, but I'll avoid the future headache. My dad was stopped at the border for an outstanding speeding ticket and they threatened flying him out to Nevada to face a judge. So I'll stay out of the States until my record is sealed (barring our government doesn't make an drastic changes to their policies).
And I am fully aware that Excess Blood Alcohol is a summary offence. I'm just looking for an answer in regards to hiring and what my future may hold. If I had the choice, I would have a job that would never make me cross that imaginary line. As much as I'll miss winters in Florida and ball games in Chicago...

[chesty]

Do you have your driving ticket back yet? If you can't drive it will be hard to find a job as a dock hand. Most dock hand jobs will require you to have a drivers licence.

[LousyFisherman]

Canada does not share information about summary offenses with America any longer. This stopped about 1985 when
America refused to acknowledge Canadian pardons. Information on indictable offenses is still shared.

How American immigration gets around this is they ask if you have ever been arrested.
No matter what dark matters lies in your past DO NOT LIE TO IMMIGRATION that is a felony (indictable in Canada)

As for what or what not will prevent you from getting in. Minor things including simple possesion and drunk driving
they will USUALLY let you through.. Remember it is up to the immigration officer, he does not need a reason to reject you.

I have been arrested over 10 times, never convicted, was born in Bahrain which made me a terrorist threat after 9/11 and
I have never had a problem entering America, just some really long conversations with US immigration.

I would be very surprised if a Canadian drunk driving charge kept you out of America.

YMMV
LF

[spaner]

Some really good information for you KB24, and I think that you got it right in your last post.
Some of the nit-picking of the information was correct pre-911. Personally I had no problems at all, and crossed the border on a regular bascis to go to Kuwatin Casino; every weekend.
Post-911 I had the US search me, while I was still enroute in a medevac. By the time I arrived, they knew what I had had for breakfeast. They had pulled up a minor "nothing" from 20 years ago and I was DENIED ENTRY.
As soon as that happens, you're phucked. 6months before you will be able to get a waiver for the denied entry and you need a new one every 5 years.

[cncpc]

I think the original poster is overreacting, which if it means he never drives drunk again, is allright. But don't overdramatize things. I think something like 10% of Canadians have a criminal record and 60% of Canadians admit to having committed a criminal offence. As the poster above says, it would be very surprising if you couldn't get into the US. The former premier of BC was busted down there, breaking their laws, not ours, and he has no problem. And he shouldn't.

I don't think you can get in with simple possession, though.

[KB24]

Once again thanks for all the great input. You've really help put me at ease and provided a whole lot of motivation going forward. I hope I'm not overreacting, but I'm very against drinking and driving. It was a mistake that I hope to deter others from making once I've "made it". I never used to be that guy to say "Hey, maybe you shouldn't drive", but since my debacle I do my best to make sure others don't endanger themselves and innocent people.

One of my main concerns is pertaining to insuring a pilot under the company. When it comes time to move into the 180, will my employer not need to perform a driving record check for insurance purposes? Excuse me if I'm way off on this. I just assumed every pilot is put on the companies insurance individually. And do the same insurance requirements apply to working at an FTU(instructing, sightseeing) as a float op?

And my license has been reinstated. From my previous time as a dockhand I know that there's a whole lot of driving and boating involved. I will be good there. So I'm not really worrying about the US customs matters atm. That time will come. I'm just looking to land that first job and start working hard.

[Meatservo]

Well, whatever it is, I've got a bunch of parking tickets from another province that I never bothered to pay; I guess I'm going to deal with that before I decide to go to the States.

The biggest hassle I ever had from customs and immigration thugs was right here in Canada. I was crossing the border in a Caravan after having picked up one of our engineers south of the border, and the customs guys at Fort Frances were real badass types who decided they didn't like the way I looked at them or something. They were asking me to open panels on the plane and everything. Eventually as I became less and less amicable one of them made a mistake and threatened to strip-search my wife, who had come along for the ride. I wish I could remember what I threatened them with in return (some blustery made-up legal nonsense I'm sure) but they sure backed off in a hurry and tried to befriend me with a bunch of BS about how hard their job is and how I "gotta understand" they are just doing their job, etc, etc, blah, blah. This was before 2001, I'm sure if the same thing happened now I'd end up cooling off with a hole in my head.


Anyway, forget about the insurance. Flying aeroplanes has nothing to do with driving. The insurance is not the same. There is nothing the same. Driving insurance is not the same as flying insurance. STOP worrying about it. Go get your license, and go get a frickin' job.

And you'd better hurry. Hiring for float season starts in a couple of months.

[Les Habitants]

I hate drinking and driving, but I just wanted to pipe up to say...sounds like you have a great attitude KB24. It's good that you learn from mistakes-that's what's really important. Keep it up.

[spaner]

You won't have any problems in canada at all, don't worry about it.

I was going to post up some "star denied entry" trivia but decided to post the most shocking one that I could find. Stay out of the US.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/930 ... de-attempt

[boogs82]

Your Over 80 conviction might have been dealt with Summarily but I can assure you it can be indictable as well. It's a hybrid offence. As for crossing the border, the US Border folks have access to your entire criminal record via CPIC whether it be Summary or Indictable offences. Any convictions on your criminal record will show up.

[North Shore]

When it comes time to move into the 180, will my employer not need to perform a driving record check for insurance purposes?

Not in my experience! I used to drive with a size 14 right foot..even got a speeding ticket on my way to one of my summer jobs (120k between Portage and the 'Peg on a bright sunny day ) no-one has yet asked to see my DL, let alone take the number for 'insurance'....

[azimuthaviation]

You won't have any problems in canada at all, don't worry about it.

I was going to post up some "star denied entry" trivia but decided to post the most shocking one that I could find. Stay out of the US.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/930 ... de-attempt

If the police took her fingerprints when they arrived those files are accessible by the US, it wasnt that the hospital sent that info. In addition to application for a pardon you also need to get your fingerprints destroyed. Because its not just convictions, someone could be charged with murder and out on bail, or charged with an offence that has been stayed, Canada has the obligation to share that information when the US asks. Speeding tickets, traffic tickets that went unpaid and resulted in default time prison, fines for non criminal marijuana possesion, littering, tickets for sneaking on the subway, not cleaning up after your dog... all those are not criminal convictions and wont show up at the border.

[boogs82]

There's no such thing as non-criminal marihuana possession. The Controlled Drugs and Substances Act is a Federal Act. As such if there's a conviction registered for possession then it's a Criminal Conviction. If there's a diversion (not a flying one ) done before things are in the courts then the charge is withdrawn so it wouldn't show up on a Criminal Record check.

[Oxi]

Can anyone pass on information about Criminal Record Checks & Drivers Abstracts when flying with the government contracts? Are certain standards found somewhere, are speeding tickets red flagged or driving while under the influence that have long been gone but still show on the records?

Thanks

[RatherBeFlying]

There is the vulnerable sector criminal record check which asks CPIC to divulge all police contacts (i.e. those that are put into CPIC).

If you happen to have the same birthday as somebody who committed a sexual or other nasty offence, you have to submit your fingerprints -- which are returned to you when the check is completed.

[Major Bedhead]

One thing you might want to consider - if you have any chance of working for the FTU in the future, you can get the chief pilot or owner to come up with a letter stating as part of your employment you may have need to travel to the US. Attach this letter with your pardon application and it will greatly speed the process.

As others have mentioned, until you have the pardon in hand it would be a very good idea to remain north of the border.

Best of luck

P

Edited due to apple autocorrect

[Oxi]

Thanks, more interested in the government flying contracts and the checks they will do or look for.

[Driving Rain]

If you have a family member that's run afoul of the law as I've had, it can cause problems with US border officials too.
My brother who has long since been diseased had a colourful past. I made the mistake 20 years ago of trying to cross the border with him in my 1/2 ton.( at a B.C. Idaho crossing) Long story short we were both turned back because of his criminal record. The next day without my brother in the truck I recrossed the border at the same crossing under the glare of the same US customs agent. He must have tagged my file because 2 years after that incident I was pre-clearing the US border at YYZ and was pulled from the line with no explanation much to my wifes amazement, we were separated and I was led off for interrogation. We were flying to Myrtle Beach for a spring get away. Although my brother had passed away a year before they pressed me for all the details of his passing. I must admit the US agent at YYZ was polite, apolgetic and made sure I caught my flight he also told me it would be best if I didn't cross again for 6 months at least so they could clear my the file.
I've crossed many times since then with zero problems but the encounter illustrated how long their memory is. Things got much more complicated after 911.
If you live in a border region as I have. its common knowledge that US agents read the local papers especially the police files. I know of one town paper that stopped printing names.

[Driving Rain]

Thanks, more interested in the government flying contracts and the checks they will do or look for.

As far as I know they don't check. I only worked for the gumitup for thirty years. I know of a couple of guys that collected DUIs in that time and they weren't impacted in any way that I'm aware of other than they needed rides to work.