Fate of Mosquito and Hurricane in Calgary

[gulfan]

I just recieved this notice and I was wondering if anyone in Calgary had any thoughts on it? Just wanted to spread the word.

Date: Mon Jan 5 10:51:16 2009
Subject: PUBLIC SESSIONS ON CITY OWNED AIRCRAFT
From: Bonnie Tucker

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CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
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Your Opinion Matters

The City of Calgary will host two public sessions to seek
input on what steps to take regarding two antique aircraft
owned by The City.

The City has custody of the aircraft, a de Havilland Mosquito
and a Hawker Hurricane, but neither is in any condition to be
displayed at the Aero Space Museum of Calgary. Restoration
could cost in the millions of dollars.

The de Havilland Mosquito (P.R. Mk. 35 Serial #RS700 CF-HMS)
was built in the UK in 1946. It never saw action in WW II,
but was converted by the Royal Air Force from bomber to photo
-reconnaissance service for 8 years. Along with 9 others, the
Mosquito was sold to Spartan Air Services of Ottawa in 1956
where it saw commercial service as a photo-mapping aircraft
primarily in Canada’s north. Logs for this aircraft show last
active use in 1960.

The Mosquito was donated to The City of Calgary in 1972 and,
except for a failed attempt at restoration between 1989 -
1992, it has been in City storage in pieces for the past 36
years.

The Hawker Hurricane (Mk XII Serial # 5389 FN*M) was built in
Thunder Bay, Ontario in 1942. Initially assigned to No. 4
Training Command at Calgary, Alberta, it was then assigned to
No. 133 (Fighter) Squadron at Lethbridge, Alberta. On October
26, 1942 the aircraft was relocated to RCAF Station Boundary
Bay, British Columbia where it flew Home Defense missions for
Western Air Command. On August 20, 1946 the aircraft was
retired from RCAF service.

Little is known of its subsequent history until it was found
in Saskatchewan and brought to Calgary to be a part of the
“Air Museum of Canada” in the early 1960s. It subsequently
became the property of the City of Calgary in the 1970s and
has been in storage in pieces since then.

The City will host two public information sessions at the
Aero Space Museum of Calgary, 4629 McCall Way NE, on January
6 and January 7, 2009, from 6 PM to 8 PM. Members of the
public will be able to learn about the aircraft and the
options open to The City regarding these aircraft. Citizens
will be asked to express their opinions on the various
options and those opinions will form the basis of a
recommendation to Council later in the year.

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Public Contact Information:

311

Public Email Contact:

3-1-1contactus@calgary.ca

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[goingmach_1]

Far from Calgary, but close to Ottawa. Anyone out there who is planning on going to the meeting tell someone to donate the carcass's to Vintage Wings of Canada. Maybe they could get them flying. VWoC is a foundation, so the City would get a tax receipt.

[ScudRunner]

this is why I need to have millions of dollars I would be funding there restoration in heart beat

[MorganAirCFI]

They are spending $20 million already on this stupid pedestrian bridge project in Calgary, whats another few million on spent on canadian history?

[. ._]

Calling Mike Potter at Vintage Wings...

That would be AWESOME to see a flying condition mosquito! I think there's only one flying in the world right now, isn't there? Over in England?

-istp

[MichaelP]

The BAe Mosquito piled it in a few years ago.
The other 'airworthy' Mossie was up at Strathallan and I believe Kermit Weeks bought her.

[linecrew]

There's one apparently being restored in Vancouver:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... t=mosquito

[Flybabe]

It would be a horrible shame if the aircraft left Calgary. I have 36 cents in my pockets, maybe they'll take donations?

[North Shore]

From the Warbirds link:

I've heard that although it will be restored to airworthy condition, that the owner intends on only flying it maybe once for pictures with the Spit and then grounding her. If it does fly, I think it will be a one-off deal.

i realize that it is the Jens' aircraft to do as they please with - but why spend all of the money to get it to airworthy, if you're not going to fly it?

WRT Calgary's aircraft...don't they pump money out of the ground somewhere near there? Why not spend some of that to get a piece of Canadian History working again? How much did they blow on 'Ralph Bucks' a few years back?

[black hole]

A shot time ago I found a site in Australia the was tooling up to build new ones. They had a complete album of photos of the jigs and moulds from scatch. seemed a lot of work for just one plane. Even studying the pis was quite an education. Sorry I have lost the link as well as the hard drive that crashed.

BH

[teacher]

This shouldn't even be debated, both aircraft should remain in Canada and be sent to either the RCAF museum, the Canadian War Plane Heritage or even the Canadian Aviation Museum in Ottawa (or any Canadian museum for that matter)! As usual this country sells off it's past and heritage to the highest bidder.

Calgary Mosquito Society wants to save classics

Written by Aviation.ca
Tuesday, 06 January 2009

Things are expected to heat up in council chambers this week as aviation enthusiasts and the public have their say into the fate of two vintage planes owned by the city.

The city has owned and had in storage both a Hawker Hurricane and Mosquito for decades. The city says restoration work will cost millions, so is hedging in making a decision.

Last year, the city planned to sell the Mosquito to a collector in England for $1.5 million that would have seen the Hurricane restored and an endowment given to the museum, but council shot down the plan after a public outcry.

Gerry Laing, the city's civic partner liaison, said the public sessions, which will run from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. at the Aero Space Museum of Calgary at 4629 McCall Way N.E., will try to determine what the people of Calgary want to do with the historical assets.

"I think if there's a way to keep both in Calgary the public would like that, but we would need somebody to come forward with funding and a plan," he said, adding the city would consider matching funds if the deal was right.

But the founder of the Calgary Mosquito Society said he believes the public sessions that will be held today and tomorrow, are masking the true intent to unload at least one of the planes.

"This is an open house and a closed mind all at the same time," said Richard de Boer.

"This is a sham show with the intent of selling one of these aircraft because the only option they're giving people is which one to sell."

Laing said a recommendation is planned for November.

http://weather.aviation.ca/content/view/6684/117/

[Meecka]

I wish we could bring the Mosquito here to VWoC. Unfortunately I havn't heard anny rummor of interest in her... to bad, she'd go nice with our Spit and hurricane(s)!

[Hedley]

IIRC the Mosquito was constructed with laminated wood
and milk glue (I am not making this up) which does not
age well, and those aircraft must be two-thirds of a century
old by now.

Personally, great for static display, but I'm not sure I'd
really want to trust my pink bod to 66 year old milk glue.

Found this, by Victor A. Boyce, who "has been called upon
as an expert in wood and glues by lawyers in court cases
in Australia and Canada":

Later on in my aviation career I found out just what happens to Casein glue to make it fail when used in aircraft construction and repair. When repeatedly wet by rainwater as when the aircraft is left outside, the microbes in the water devour the glue in the joints, leaving only a brown stain where the glue was. Even though the best Casein glue contained a fungicide to prevent this from happening, and the wood varnished, the microbes eventually overwhelmed the fungicide and the glue was lost.

I spent many hours of my early career re-gluing joints in wooden aircraft especially along wing trailing edges and bottoms of fuselages where water would lay when drain holes became blocked by dirt etc.

[J31]

My grandfather a master carpenter, built Mosquito’s during World War II. He said if the glues in the 1970’s were available during the war the Mosquito would be in good shape. Unfortunately it was a war machine designed to last for 2 years with cheap glue even for the time.

As much as I would like to see the Mossy flying or better yet fly one, they are at real risk of falling apart in the air. Thus I hope the few Mosquito’s left are restored to static displays.

[teacher]

I'm famous, or so my AvCanada personality is. Goes to show that many different people read this site.

Aviation dreams grounded by debate

Robert Remington
Calgary Herald

Sunday, January 11, 2009

To the uninitiated, the old fuselages and skeletal, dust-covered spare parts sitting in storage at a city-owned warehouse don't look like much of anything. To aviation buffs, they are the irreplaceable, historically significant remnants of two vintage aircraft that

Enthusiasts differ over future of city-owned Hurricane and Mosquito the City of Calgary has irresponsibly allowed to let languish and deteriorate for decades.

The fate of the two city-owned planes, hotly debated for years, will likely be decided in November, the deadline for an advisory committee to make a recommendation to city council on what to do with the aircraft.

The valuable Hawker Hurricane and de Havilland Mosquito -- both of which came into the city's possession at no cost in the 1970s -- became a political hot potato last year when an unnamed foreign buyer offered $1.5 million for the Mosquito, tempting the city to sell it. The money would have been used to restore the Hurricane and any leftover funds would go to an endowment for the neglected Aero Space Museum at the Calgary International Airport.

Protests by outraged Mosquito buffs stopped the sale, launching a debate over which of the two planes has more historical relevance to Calgary.

To sell either to a foreign buyer would be a tragedy, according to many who have weighed in from across the country on aviation web-sites.

"As usual, this country sells off its past and heritage to the highest bidder," commented one person on av-Canada.ca, a Calgary-based site.

The sale of the Mosquito, or even the Hurricane, to an international bidder might not even be allowed, according to Charles Drouin, a spokesman for the Canadian Cultural Property Export Review Board, an independent tribunal of the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Both these vintage aircraft would be considered controlled cultural property under Group 6 of the Canadian Cultural Property Export Control List, and would therefore require the vendor to apply for and be issued a cultural property export permit before the property may leave the country, Drouin said.

The Mosquito was one of several planes used to map the Canadian North in the days before satellite. The Hawker Hurricane was used for patrols o the West Coast in the Second World War. An Ottawa-based aviation historical organization was so concerned about the possible sale of the two planes that it notified the export review board last year.

"I alerted o cials of the possible removal of these aircraft from the country," says Timothy Dube, president of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society.

"Flight and everything surrounding it is a passionate affair. The disposition of these aircraft is really something that Calgary needs to settle locally," Dube said.

Indeed, it wasn't di cult to find a range of opinions at two city-sponsored open houses last week at the Aero Space Museum, where people were asked for options for the disposition of the two planes.

"To me, it's not an 'either/or.' They are both priceless, irreplaceable aircraft," said David Dunsmore, a member of the Calgary Mosquito Society and an Aero Space Museum member. "Culturally, they belong to the people of Canada.

"We are accountable to future generations. People who have not been born yet, who will never see these aircraft fly, at least deserve to see one sitting there."

Ald. Gord Lowe, a former air tra c controller and vintage airplane bu , disagrees.

"As someone who is very fond of both airplanes and travels all over the world to go to air shows, in my view old airplanes should be in the air and it doesn't matter where in the world they are. My opinion is that the more interesting aircraft is the Hurricane."

The Mosquito, he says, is "in terrible condition." The Hurricane, on the other hand, is regarded by experts as the most restorable Hurricane of its kind anywhere in existence.

Others say restoring either plane to flying condition is a fool's game that can only be played by millionaires.

According to Hawker Restorations, a U. K. company that specializes in the restoration of vintage Hawker Hurricanes to flying condition, a typical restoration involves 50,000 hours of work and at least $1.2 million Cdn worth of parts. However, that doesn't include the cost of insuring the plane or the fuel needed to fly it.

"Who can a ord to fly airplanes? Really. Any of these things in here just gobble up gasoline," says Grant Hill, 85, a docent at the Aero Space Museum. "It's an expensive proposition."

Tim Leslie, chief of flying operations for Vintage Wings, a Quebec-based organization that restores, maintains and flies classic aircraft, estimates that a "scratch rebuild" to the Hurricane would cost at least $1.8 million and to fully restore it to flying condition could cost up to $3.2 million US.

"A restoration project of this magnitude is a tremendous undertaking, and most people severely underestimate the time and e ort required," says Leslie, a former military pilot and former test pilot for the National Research Council.

"This is not something that can be done in months. Rather, it will take years, or perhaps a decade or so. I have seen far more projects fail than succeed."

Using taxpayer money to restore either aircraft will never fly, says Lowe.

"I can tell you that city council will not be willing to spend a nickel restoring either aircraft."

Grant Hill has a soft spot for the Hurricane. An air force volunteer in the Second World War, he flew Calgary's Hawker Hurricane on missions o the West Coast looking for the Japanese enemy, although he doesn't really consider his Hurricane flights as missions.

"Well, 'mission' has a religious connotation. We did trips or sorties, really, is what we called them. We did patrols out to sea. I don't really count that as operational time, which is what I did when I got to Europe."

As a Spitfire pilot during the war, Hill came to respect the Mosquito, among the fastest aircraft of its time. Lacking much defensive armament, it relied on its speed and ability to fly at high altitudes to elude the enemy. It could fly at 700 km/h at 9,140 metres and its manoeuvrability was spectacular, according to Canada's Department of National Defence.

To reduce wartime metal use, the Mosquito's airframe was built almost entirely out of plywood.

The Spitfire, the most famous of the British fighters, is known as "the plane that saved Britain." Along with the Hawker Hurricane, it helped win the Battle of Britain. But a Mosquito could leave either in its dust.

"They would just pull away from us," Hill says of the Mosquito.

Calgary's Hawker Hurricane Mk XII, serial number 5389, registration number FN*M, was built in Thunder Bay in 1942. It was designed by Elsie McGill, the first female aeronautical engineer in Canada and the world's first female aircraft designer.

Initially assigned to 4 Training Command at Calgary, it was later assigned to 133 Fighter Squadron at Lethbridge.

On Oct. 26, 1942, the aircraft was relocated to RCAF Station Boundary Bay, B. C., from where Hill and others flew it on home defence sorties. On Aug. 20, 1946, it was retired from RCAF service.

Little is known of the Hurricane's subsequent history until it was found in Saskatchewan and brought to Calgary to be a part of a proposed Air Museum of Canada in the early 1960s.

It subsequently became the property of the city in the 1970s and has been in storage in pieces ever since.

It was Hill's log book that helped identify the Calgary Hurricane.

"I flew it maybe eight or 10 times. They were a good airplane to fly."

Hill admits he is biased in favour of the Hurricane.

"I rather think we should try to keep this one. I am fond of the Mosquito, too. I think it is a very famous airplane, but it is going to be a big job to do just one of them, and it is going to be especially di cult and expensive to rebuild the Mosquito because of the way it was manufactured. I really don't think any artifact should be gotten rid of, but it happens, and it may have to happen here. Maybe this Mosquito is better o being sold and some good be made with the money. Of course, anybody who flew them probably has a di erent feeling."

Calgary's Trevor McTavish never flew a Mosquito, but his grandfather did.

"He flew on the DEW line up in the North in the early 1950s. His map of Canada basically said, 'beyond this point, there be dragons.' He was working in northern Canada and drawing his own maps of what he saw."

Calgary's de Havilland Mosquito Mark 35 is one of four surviving Mosquitoes of nine that were used by Ottawa's Spartan Air Services for aerial photography in the Arctic.

Built in the United Kingdom in 1946, it was assigned serial number RS700 and given the registration CF-HMS. It never saw military action and was converted by the Royal Air Force to do photo reconnaissance and sold to Spartan in 1956. With its high-altitude capabilities, it was ideal for photo-mapping of large areas.

Logs for the Mosquito show its last active use in 1960. It was donated to the city in 1972 and, except for a failed attempt at restoration between 1989 and 1992, it has been stored in pieces for the past 36 years.

The value of the Mosquito is in its historical contribution to Canada's claims to Arctic sovereignty, McTavish says.

"In the late 1950s, we didn't even know how big Canada was. This plane will stand to honour the Canadian men and women who have basically worked unrecognized in the field of aerial survey. It is a field Canadians are world leaders in and it is totally unrecognized."

McTavish says the city has a stewardship responsibility for the Mosquito.

He believes the city could retain ownership while not contributing tax dollars to its restoration, which could be done through fundraising projects and donations.

The Calgary Mosquito Society believes the aircraft could be restored to a museum-quality display for $200,000, a cost others question due to its unique wood construction.

"It's going to cost a lot because there are very few people who have the skills to do that," says Hal Swartz, a retired aircraft inspector.

Supporters of restoring the Hurricane argue that it has a stronger Canadian pedigree because it was built in Canada.

Willie McKnight, an Alberta ace who died in the Second World War, also flew a Hurricane. McKnight Boulevard is named for him.

The Hurricane's supporters also say its condition makes it a better candidate for restoration than the Mosquito.

The debate over which aircraft is more significant to Calgary is moot, argues McTavish.

"The historical significance of the Mosquito is not that it never flew in military service, not that it ever bombed an enemy, not that it was not made in Canada. Where an airplane is built, in the scheme of things, is not that big a deal."

Leslie says the entire vintage aviation world is well aware of the debate raging in Calgary, and he doesn't envy us the situation we are in.

Mired in politics and bogged down in a tug of war between competing interests, Calgary's plane debate is further complicated by the passionate nature of aviation bu s, whose views can border on the fanatical.

"My experience is something as ambitious as this cannot be done by committee. It is doomed for failure if 'group think' enters the picture," Leslie said.

Asked to comment on a full restoration of the Hurricane, as advocated by Ald. Lowe, he said this:

"If you want this aircraft restored properly, raise the capital, expect it to be expensive, and hire a team of experts to do the job. If you are not 100 per cent committed, then sell the project for a fair price. But if you are committed, what will be achieved is something extremely special, a monument to those Canadians who served in the Second World War of their own free will and the many who made the ultimate sacrifi ce. Our Canadian soldiers are still defending the right for us all to live in a free world, and it is up to us average citizens to preserve the various icons that remind us all what the price of freedom is all about."

© The Calgary Herald 2009

http://www.canada.com/components/print. ... 6&sponsor=

[Phlyer]

Decent article. Just a small quibble though:

Calgary's Hawker Hurricane Mk XII, serial number 5389, registration number FN*M, was built in Thunder Bay in 1942. It was designed by Elsie McGill, the first female aeronautical engineer in Canada and the world's first female aircraft designer.

As much as Elsie McGill was a trail blazer for women and deserves admiration, she did not design the Hurricane. It was Sydney Camm.

http://www.warbirdalley.com/hurry.htm
'In 1933, Hawker's chief designer, Sydney Camm, decided to design an aircraft which would fulfill a British Air Ministry specification calling for a new monoplane fighter. His prototype, powered by a 990hp Rolls Royce Merlin 'C' engine, first flew on 6 November 1935, and quickly surpassed expectations and performance estimates.'

From Veterans Affairs Site:

'McGill was the first woman to receive an Electrical Engineering degree in Canada and the first female aircraft designer in the world. In 1942, the aeronautical engineer took on the important job of supervising the Canadian production of Hawker Hurricane fighter planes at the Canadian Car and Foundry Company in Fort William, Ontario. In the process, she would win acclaim for her trail blazing contributions and earn the nickname "Queen of the Hurricanes."'

[oldtimer]

Calgary's dumb ass mayor and most of council do not like anything old. They are not going to spend $20 mil on a foot bridge, they are going to spend $50 mil on two bridges that we need like a hole in the head but the mayor has the hots for someting he can be remembered by. And that $50 big ones is BEFORE the usual cost over runs. The museum is in shambles, all because of a lack of financial support. It is sad to see, but we can all lok at this friggen fancy dan foot bridges across the friggen Bow that maybe can be made to look lke a Mossy.

[keener flier]

too bad westjet doesn't take the lead in this community project. aviation company supporting local aviation enthusiasts and aviation history.

[AEROMONKEY]

Hi, i know this is an old story but does anyone know what has happened to these 2 aircraft?

[Trevor]

In December 2010 Calgary City Council voted to keep both airplanes and to help fund their restorations with upto $800,000 in fund matching monies.

In December 2011 the City awarded the restorations to the Calgary Mosquito Aircraft Society.

Unfortunately the process is moving at the speed of bueracracy, mostly because of the beating that the City has taken over a number of projects that have blown way beyond their original financial estimates.

Check out the CMS website at: http://www.calgarymosquitosociety.com

[Beefitarian]

It's also going slow because flybabe failed to donate that 36¢ which would have probably doubled the previous amount donated by others living here.

Most people are only here to work and don't care about anything that is 10 years old or more, except that if it's a building that is 15 years old or more they might be able to demolish it to build a new one. I bet if you asked for donations in Calgary to help some cause in Toronto or a historic boat in Newfoundland you'd get some support.

[bmc]

I'm big on keeping them in Canada as long as they taken care of and are preserved. By preserved, I mean restored properly. Otherwise, what is the point of having two piles of rotting airframes.

Old airplanes should be properly restored. To do that takes serious money, commitment and skills. Do all of these truly exist in YYC or are we being more patriotic than sensible?

[bmc]

I'm big on keeping them in Canada as long as they taken care of and are preserved. By preserved, I mean restored properly. Otherwise, what is the point of having two piles of rotting airframes.

Old airplanes should be properly restored. To do that takes serious money, commitment and skills. Do all of these truly exist in YYC or are we being more patriotic than sensible?

[Human Factor]

There's one apparently being restored in Vancouver:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... t=mosquito

I think you mean Victoria:

http://vicair.net/projects/mosquito

[Beefitarian]

Old airplanes should be properly restored. To do that takes serious money, commitment and skills. Do all of these truly exist in YYC or are we being more patriotic than sensible?

Well the money is here but unless it's a new Nissan Truck they're not buying. History's for places like Montreal, we've got the Mountains. Now get your Centeniel Planetarium (not so coincedentaly where those planes used to sit outside) out of the way. We're building the 30 year past due above ground crossing streets light rail transit west leg.