Westjetters back Regional Airline 91% say yes

[bombardierfixer]

Like Kag and stick said, this is so far from being finalized there is no point to speculate. If you saw the presentations or saw a roadshow it was pretty hard to vote no. The release of the globe and mail article was unfortunate but I think that the EVP got the message loud and clear that the "second class" route was not all that acceptable. Its better to make a change like this from a position of strength as opposed to reacting when you are weak. Haters goona hate, and the koolaid drinkers are all in. I guess you can count me in for the latter.

[bmc]

If anything, the fact that a CEO went to the employees to contribute to the process is ground breaking. Herb Kelleher did an incredible job of festering great employee relations. And, at the time, Southwest had the lowest turn over of staff and the lowest paid employees. There are all kinds of studies out there that prove that money is not the strongest motivator for employees. Recognition, support, encouragement go a long way.

So, as some one said, haters are going to be haters no matter what. I see this corporate culture inspiring and it makes other cultures look dated and weak.

[B_Boomer_54]

If anything, the fact that a CEO went to the employees to contribute to the process is ground breaking. Herb Kelleher did an incredible job of festering great employee relations. And, at the time, Southwest had the lowest turn over of staff and the lowest paid employees. There are all kinds of studies out there that prove that money is not the strongest motivator for employees. Recognition, support, encouragement go a long way.

So, as some one said, haters are going to be haters no matter what. I see this corporate culture inspiring and it makes other cultures look dated and weak.

Well, wouldn't you be hating if you had to put up with this crap day in day out all while watching your competition succeed??

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le2332064/

There is a very reputable Canadian out there, now retired Gen. Rick Hillier, who released a book not too long ago called "Leadership". Well worth the read. At days end, it comes down to how you treat people. A skill that few master, young and old. Put shit in , you're going to get shit out.

Very impressed with the employees and management at Westjet. Look forward to future developments.

[Biff]

And the race to the bottom starts.....

I would argue that the way to begin a "race to the bottom" would have being to enter into a capacity purchase agreement with someone like sky regional. That way, when the contract was over, Westjet could put it out again for competitive bids, likely getting someone to bid on it for a cheaper price. Come to think of it....isn't that what air Canada is doing?

By doing it as a sister company, in my mind, it will prevent a constant ratcheting down of pilots wages in the regional sector.

[CAL]

Highlander don't forget that if you don't contribute to ESP u have no pension so not really an option unless u have something else coming to u at 65 or the wife does....assuming u keep the same one.....but on a positive note I wish wj all the best with this......I have my doubts I think it will depend on who can hold out the longest at below cost fares.....my money would be on wj...I had kinda hoped they had gone bigger not smaller but I guess why buy and operate a wide body if someone else can do it and you split the revenue.....I would imagine 10 plus years now to left seat hope the wjpa has a look at fo s topping out at 7 year pay and protects as many routes as they can.

[Marinth]

Highlander don't forget that if you don't contribute to ESP u have no pension so not really an option unless u have something else coming to u at 65 or the wife does....assuming u keep the same one.....but on a positive note I wish wj all the best with this......I have my doubts I think it will depend on who can hold out the longest at below cost fares.....my money would be on wj...I had kinda hoped they had gone bigger not smaller but I guess why buy and operate a wide body if someone else can do it and you split the revenue.....I would imagine 10 plus years now to left seat hope the wjpa has a look at fo s topping out at 7 year pay and protects as many routes as they can.

You don't think of the ESP as a pension, do you? Who in their right mind would throw their entire pension into 1 stock, and an airline stock at that!?!? Were I a believer I would pray for any poor westjetter who thought of their ESP as their pension plan. That being said, you can get an RRSP, you don't have to go through a company to do that. You definately don't have to buy into the ESP thing.

[Go Guns]

You don't think of the ESP as a pension, do you?

No, as mentioned before, there is no pension plan. The ESPP, if well managed, can offer you a great retirement. You only have to hold that stock in WestJet for one year after it was purchased. After that time you're free to do with it as you please, such as sell it and reinvest in something else. Many people do just that.

[dhc2pilot]

Most pilots are fighting to protect their flying, West Jet gives it away. It will be your undoing.
Wait till you vote on the 787 going to the other low cost international operation. Can't wait to see how that turns out. You have all sold out every pilot in Canada. My hats off to you all! Outstanding professionals we all are.

[flying4dollars]

WestJet chief executive officer Gregg Saretsky said he’s pleased that non-union employees, known internally as WestJetters, voted in favour of creating a wholly owned regional division.

Does this mean it will be WestJet, and not a spinoff or subcontracted regional company? I know there was talk/rumors about outsourcing to a regional carrier (like AC to Jazz).

[Flying Nutcracker]

Why would Westjet be talking to 2 manufacturers if they were buying another company?

How can it be outsourcing if everybody gets a piece of the pie?

[Flying Nutcracker]

. You have all sold out every pilot in Canada. My hats off to you all! Outstanding professionals we all are.

I resent that statement. Only for the fact that we are not giving flying a way to anyone but new Westjetters.

[Black Cat]

Congrats and I hope it all works out as good as you're are expecting. If anyone can play nice in the sandbox it will be your group.

[HolyShitBatman!]

Most pilots are fighting to protect their flying, West Jet gives it away. It will be your undoing.
Wait till you vote on the 787 going to the other low cost international operation. Can't wait to see how that turns out. You have all sold out every pilot in Canada. My hats off to you all! Outstanding professionals we all are.

You are incredibly ignorant or completely uninformed if that's how you truly feel.

I've spent 10 years of my professional career flying for Westjet and I have absolutely no regrets. Our association has done a tremendous job working with our Company (which is hard for most of you to understand -- as I'm sure you're far too distracted by your own problems) to get our wages and benefits to where they are. When I joined WestJet I knew what I was getting into and I believed in our Management Team that we were going to get bigger and better. We did and we are.

I want the same job growth and prospects for the new hires at Westjet Regional that I was afforded when I started at WestJet. I want WestJet Regional to provide stable employment, career mobility, and industry leading compensation and benefits. I want WestJet Regional employees to be welcomed to our Westjet family so that we can all work together towards the same goal. I don't give a rats ass what anyone outside of Westjet thinks about what we are trying to do here. 91% of Westjet employees do - and that speaks volumes to how unified our employee groups are to make this thing work. Together. What a novel concept.

[jjj]

Most pilots are fighting to protect their flying, West Jet gives it away. It will be your undoing.
Wait till you vote on the 787 going to the other low cost international operation. Can't wait to see how that turns out. You have all sold out every pilot in Canada. My hats off to you all! Outstanding professionals we all are.

Well that was dramatic. Uninformed as well.

We have an agreement that states any future wide bodies will be added to the existing OC.
Included in the agreement is a protection of block hours for the 737.
The possibility of a merger/acquisition or CPA is for now - off the table.
The WS network will expand and we will provide a great place to work. The regional will not be a fit for everyone but we will still be hiring directly to the main line so I expect the talent pool will remain the same.

dhc2pilot, we haven't sold out a single pilot. What we have done is argue on behalf of a few hundred guys that haven't even been hired yet so that they will have a great place to work. Our pilot association has done an outstanding job in creating firewalls for existing pilots at WS and setting the foundation for a regional that will not exist under the thumb of a nasty big brother. One of the mechanisms to ensure that will be a joint pilot association between main line and regional.

If anything, this is a shining moment in Canadian aviation. We have demonstrated that a pilot group and management can work together. There are many examples of Airlines in Canada who in a much shorter span than the life life of WestJet quickly went to an us vs. them culture.

Peace out dhc2pilot.


JJJ

[barefootpilot]

I hope this works out but can't help and think of how it turned out for qantas guys. They were all told it would never happen and now look where they are.
Minimal scope, with the ability of the company to change it if they feel, let alone the blank pages left for them to write what the want.
I wonder how long it will take for those cushy YLW and YYJ 737 ports to switch to the 8s.

[DaveP]

Hi Guys,
Good stuff, I wouldn't bite on DHC2's comments. That kind of fishing trip is best left for the walleye in Lake St. Joe.
As for the regional stuff and Ports, we already looked at all of that. It might take some flying out for sure but it will also add flying (if that makes sense). In the winter months it will likely increase flying as it will free up bigger iron to fly south.

IE: YYJ/KOA or YLW/CUN etc...

That also goes for things like the YYC/YEG runs...those tails will likely turn south to our code share hubs and more profitable spots. After all it's about block hours and utilization.
We could take zero new tails in a year but up utilization - then you are into a hiring spree depending on how much utilization is increased. The shoulder seasons are a little tougher though.

Maybe someone can correct me but I noticed on airline pay.com that the starting wage at Jazz is around 41 or 42 for an FO and a Capt is 75? Is this chart correct?

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... ation.html

If so we will be right in there from what I've seen.

The procurement process is well under way and we will have a decision on type within 3 months. The ATR will likely be out front demonstrating next week. The hard work is just starting.

I'm pretty excited!

[loopa]

Maybe someone can correct me but I noticed on airline pay.com that the starting wage at Jazz is around 41 or 42 for an FO and a Capt is 75? Is this chart correct?

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... ation.html

If so we will be right in there from what I've seen.

I'm no jazz guy (as you know LOL) but I have friends there and from what they tell me that is correct.

See guys? What's so BAD about the Regional pay if it's 7-8k less than what the 737 first year is which I believe is somewhere around the 50's...

I'm excited too for the expansion!!!

I'm curious how it will work with transition between the 737/Regional guy? Equipment bid?

[DaveP]

Hi Loopa,
We understand that to be a big question.
So I'll put it to you...to keep moral high, would it not be better to draw more talent (for the 737 expansion) from the regional for two things - moral and career progression? Of course it would!

We can and take up to 100 percent from the regional. It will cost more for training, but the trade off is moral and motivation. That helps keep everyone pulling on the same rope and adding to the growth and the basic strength of the company. This little venture will start out lean and will likely be profitable. Pay, benefits and ESP will all be scaleable too. Who knows, maybe down the road it will assist in us obtaining bigger A/C if we decide to go that route.

Dave.

[loopa]

Hi Loopa,
We understand that to be a big question.
So I'll put it to you...to keep moral high, would it not be better to draw more talent (for the 737 expansion) from the regional for two things - moral and career progression? Of course it would!

We can and take up to 100 percent from the regional. It will cost more for training, but the trade off is moral and motivation. That helps keep everyone pulling on the same rope and adding to the growth and the basic strength of the company. This little venture will start out lean and will likely be profitable. Pay, benefits and ESP will all be scaleable too. Who knows, maybe down the road it will assist in us obtaining bigger A/C if we decide to go that route.

Dave.

That sounds really great to be honest. Kind of like you got something to shoot for within the company A goal to get on the 737 and down the road even bigger types which like you say would boost morale, drive, and etc. Clever stuff! I seriously have never grasped where some people come from thinking this will be the end to WestJet. I can only imagine a company that puts its employees 100% in the loop in major decisions as such only have a corporate culture that would strive for nothing but the best? Can't say that about other places where the CEO gets dressed up in Ali-G attire and raps for the world... haha that movie kicked ass and brought a smile to my face!

I'll be curious as to what the requirements would be for the regional side just looking at porter requiring 3000 hours for their turboprop world.

Cheers and thanks for informing all of us Dave!

[Double Wasp]

Hello All,

When this was initially announced a few weeks ago I was more than a little skeptical on this new regional division of Westjet. I now feel that if there is a company that can start a regional the right way I would say that this is it. Like any new venture there are pitfalls that lie on the path ahead. One major advantage that you have over a lot of your competitors is a positively motivated workforce, this gives you is 1100 extra sets of eyes looking out for the stumbling blocks that will be ahead and giving you not only a heads up that they are on their way, but may also provide ideas on how to overcome them.

Your competition, on the other hand, treats their workforce as if they are a necessary evil and the general employee outlook reflects this. The same stumbling blocks come along however they are very rarely pointed out and even if they were there is a very good chance the suggestions would be ignored.

The best comparison between the two companies is how this regional was accepted VS the AC LCC proposal by their respective employee groups. Westjetters were offered input from the beginning in an open and honest discussion, given an open forum where their views can be expressed and had those views listened / responded to by the CEO and senior staff. Meanwhile AC is trying to shove the LCC down their employees throats and management is left wondering why everyone is so against the whole issue.

Congrats Westjet on demonstrating a bit of class that has been lacking in this industry lately. Best of luck with what lay ahead.

DW

PS: I have no affiliation with either airline and my views are a simple perspective of someone on the outside of both circles.

[bmc]

Great post DW.

I too have no affiliation with Westjet, although I have known the senior team for many, many years and have a lot of respect for them. GS and I go back about 25 years to when he was an analyst. Aside from being a really bright guy, he's a really nice guy.

I have been in the airline industry for 30 years, working for five different airlines of different sizes (regional, domestic, transcon, international) both in Canada and abroad, for Canadian and foreign carriers, on the management side.

I'm watching this all unfold with great interest because it's a novel process loaded with good intent and highly dependant on culture and sustaining culture. The long term success will hinge entirely on this element alone. A change of management style can crumble this. I believe that this is well understood by the executive team and the shareholders. If it succeeds, it will raise the bar and point the industry to a new and better way of keeping a team together. A strong commitment to "us" and not succombing to "us and them" will be key to long term success. I think the WJ know that all too well.

It's disappointing that the naysayers frown on this. Having this model succeed puts dated models under the spotlight. And, because of the level of mistrust at other carriers, it could arguably be unchangeable.

I still haven't flown you guys yet. I still stay in touch with your team. And it really please me to read the level of commitment expressed in the Westjet forum. I give you guys a big big high five and full support to make this work. I really hope this goes well for you all. You deserve it.

[Max_Diff]

Hi Dave,

In your honest opinion, what are the chances of basing some of these new regional a/c on the East Coast? WestJet has many employees who commute from the eastcoast i.e. YHZ, and there seems to be some out there flying that a Dash or ATR could be productive at. Do you think this could be a reality, or is WestJet concertrating more on the routes west of YYZ?

Cheers,

Max

[DHC8106]

Thanks to westjet for getting this underway. This could be a great opprotunity for many of us.

I am hoping that the port system that westjet allows/uses currently, could be possible for the westjet regional. Personally I have been looking for a way to be based out of cranbrook for a long time. It would certainly be a game changer if this was possible at this new airline. I have over 7000 hours, 2000 on the Dash 106, and will certainly be applying if a port system out of the smaller communities will be possible. There are alot of people that have been looking for that opportunity to live in the smaller communities, for years, and this could be a way to it to happpen. if westjet gets something like this going, they could end up with a great deal of very experienced people applying for something like this. Yes, the compensation package has to be right as well, but there are certainly things to be said about the smaller perks.

Dave P, I look forward to handing you a resume when this thing gets going

[Bede]

DHC8106,

I think you should apply because you really want to work there, not conditional on whether there is a YXC port. I used to work at Jazz and when WJA called it was a big decision for me. I already had a good schedule at Jazz and I commute from YQT. I took the job and never regretted it.

WJA has crew requirements for port flying and it will be an awfully long time before places like YQT or YXC will have any port (anything can happen though). If you want to work for WJA or the new regional, the time to go for it is now and prepare yourself for the commute (it's not that bad). Anything that comes along (port promises, etc) are just added niceties that we get.

[flyinhigh]

I work for Jazz and think that this is a great venture for Westjet. Everyone here always harps that this will be the end of Westjet as they are getting away from there 1 type model, oh no that's it.

Things do change and I think that this will be one for the better in many ways for Westjet and for our industry.

Now if they'd just call me life would be great.

Cheers