WestJet announces Whitehorse

[tailgunner]

Sticking dice,
I hate to point out the irony in your statement about a free market place..., but there were restrictions imposed on AC to allow WJ breathing room to get their feet underneath them. This allowed WJ the opportunity to grow and manage their operations without having to deal directly against AC. Now those who have benefitted from WJ's growth and success spout off about a " free market" ....how ironic. AN may be greatly harmed by this move by WJ, Davis has now become Goliath.

[CamAero]

On the topic of Westjet north of 60, rumor has it that Westjet and Canadian North have recently signed an interline agreement.

This is encouraging to hear. I hope it is true and I hope it is precedence for a similar such arrangement with 4N.

C.A.

[Realitychex]

Not entirely true.

Air Canada, (and Canadian) mainline and regional operations had no restrictions whatsoever on frequency or fares offered on all routes throughout their domestic system.

WestJet made the decision to expand into, and was already operating in Hamilton in March 2000, before the undertakings were made by AC in respect of their acquisition of the almost failed Canadian Airlines.

They were prohibited from operating a discount carrier in Hamilton, AFTER, WJ had arrived. The reality is, the restriction was intended to be far more beneficial to Royal/C3000/Canjet 1.0 than WJ, who were already printing money and expanding at a rate of about 40% per year.

Airspace in the Canadian North was initially regulated, but those regulations were eliminated a few years ago, although the exact date escapes me.

The instant the northern markets were deregulated was the instant all carriers operating in the region should have begun to prepare for increased competition. YXY has had an almost 4 year head start over YZF.

The only airline that has been given a free pass that I'm aware of is Porter, who have been annoited with about 90% of the slots at Billy Bishop Airport. Imagine the US Government giving US Airways 90% of the slots at DCA. to the exclusion of all others. It wouldn't even pass the giggle test. Even with this advantage, the only audited numbers ever provided by Porter showed them to have lost profuse amounts of cash since their start up.




Undertakings by Air Canada

•Air Canada has given up 42 peak hour slots at Toronto's Pearson airport that have been used by new entrants and existing competitors such as Royal, CanJet, Canada 3000 and Roots. (WestJet didn't ask for, or acquire any at that time).

•Air Canada is required to sell its Aeroplan points on commercially reasonable terms to any carrier with less than $250 million in annual revenues from domestic passenger services. Royal took advantage of this undertaking to offer Aeroplan points on its flights, but is no longer eligible under the revenue threshold following its acquisition by Canada 3000.

•WestJet has been able to use Hamilton International Airport to enter markets in Eastern Canada. Air Canada had secured all of the facilities at Hamilton but was required to release, assign or sublease these facilities to any discount carrier offering domestic service in Eastern Canada.

In addition, the undertakings have delayed Air Canada from commencing its own discount airline in eastern Canada until September, 2001. Concern had been expressed at the time of the merger that if Air Canada had been able to launch such an operation, it might have foreclosed the opportunity for new competitors to enter the market. (WestJet had already entered the market).

[bigsky]

At this time, WJ is proposing flights from mid May to late October servicing Whitehorse.
At what point would they make the decision to continue with winter service?

Northerners often make winter vacation plans, Xmas in particular, early.
WJ might want to make the decision to continue with winter flights early to capitalize on the lucrative winter vacation travel market.

[Donald]

At this time, WJ is proposing flights from mid May to late October servicing Whitehorse.
At what point would they make the decision to continue with winter service?

If you see a WestJet de-ice truck head up the Alaska highway this summer, that would be an indicator...

[JZA]

On the topic of Westjet north of 60, rumor has it that Westjet and Canadian North have recently signed an interline agreement.

Actually Air Canada is the one who signed the interline agreement with Canadian North. Sort of funny how things come full circle. (as Canadian North is a Canadian Airlines off-shoot)

http://www.canadiannorth.com/sites/defa ... ELEASE.pdf

[FICU]

On the topic of Westjet north of 60, rumor has it that Westjet and Canadian North have recently signed an interline agreement.

Actually Air Canada is the one who signed the interline agreement with Canadian North.

I guess the memo we got was BS then?

[thirdtimecharm]

Didn't the memo say that Canadian North was going to handle Westjet in Whitehorse and Iqaluit?

[Redneck_pilot86]

Didn't the memo say that Canadian North was going to handle Westjet in Whitehorse and Iqaluit?

LOL good luck with that.

[thirdtimecharm]

Didn't the memo say that Canadian North was going to handle Westjet in Whitehorse and Iqaluit?

LOL good luck with that.

Bringing in Air Canada to Iqaluit worked really well for them, though.

[pilotidentity]

I'll be traveling on Air North to Whitehorse. Shop local.

[palm90]

I'll be traveling on Air North to Whitehorse. Shop local.

Hey sport, I deleted your post. Try not to be a hater. If you can't stay pn point, your segues should be witty, entertaining, or somehow related. Yours was none of the above.
JC

[aycarumba]

I've been on WJ, AC, AN

AN - you get two drinks served with sandwich and warm cookie (free)

AC and WJ - ....................

[medi-whacked]

Todays air traveler expects to pay for meals, or bring your own lunch and drinks. The major airlines have trained the traveler to pay.
The fact that AN serves a "warm cookie" does not justify an extra 100 bucks for passage.
I am hearing via the grapevine that the "warm cookies" are coming to an end along with some of the other inflight services.

Does WJ offer movies on all the the 737 aircraft? AN does not. Nor does AC.

AC has a seat sale on between Whitehorse and southern destinations, I see that AN has matched the price. It wont take long for the
two big guns to squeeze the little guy out.

[C1-17]

AC has a seat sale on between Whitehorse and southern destinations, I see that AN has matched the price. It wont take long for the
two big guns to squeeze the little guy out.

I don't know if I'd refer to Westjet as the little guy!

[medi-whacked]

I don't know if I'd refer to Westjet as the little guy!

Nice to see loyal employees. We know from your previous posts that you work at AN.
Unfortunately we all know what I meant, WJ and AC, through predatory pricing, can put the squeeze on AN.
The question becomes, how far in the red are the partners of AN willing to go?

[C-206]

The people in the Yukon expect a "warm cookie" and a reasonable fair. The $99 seats are long gone, and the remaining seats are the same price as 4N's regular fair. The real questions is: How long are the "big guys" going to continue to lose or barely make money, in a market with 35000 people, and not look like a**holes doing it.

[medi-whacked]

They are in their first week of service, how is it going? How are the load factors?

[lost in the north]

Anyone have info on how the whitehorse run is doing?

[chowda]

According to folks at yvr, they are averaging around 50ish pax, which I believe(-600) equates to half empty. There's a reason why the vp was up there not long after start up making noise about joining up with AN. Apparently the masses of the Yukon have not fallen in love with WJ enough to fill their airplanes. One of the largest loads was there own staff coming up night before first flight, I heard it was around 70.
Stupid idea anyway going up there, 3 airlines serving 30000 people.
brilliant.

[DaveP]

Hi,
It took us a while to get Yellowknife going too.
We will give it a fair shake and see what comes of it but no route has really ever started strong out of the gate. It takes time in most markets. Therefore, asking if its strong in June before the true tourist season is benign. Connectivity and codesharing will help boost this run i'm sure.

It's also normal for the VP's and above to go to all bases. They have a program called "adopt a base" and that was likely that VP's base. They go there to connect with the employees and provide support.

Our VP of flight ops heads out to YHZ a few times per year and our VP of security/safety/quality has YYJ for a couple examples.

Who knows, maybe down the road if it doesn't support the jet it could certainly support the Dash 400.
The first 2 show up next June.

One thing is for certain, the low fares are good for the consumer.

Cheers.

[chowda]

http://yukon-news.com/business/28825/

Don't know what is normal for WJ, but that story in the link seems to indicate something more is going on than a routine visit, if AN can get the booking system up and running.

I would expect though, that WJ pulls out as soon as the tourist season ends, which effectively is cherry picking, because I have heard that AN operates at near losses in the winter time, recovering some profitability in the peak summer months, which isn't gonna happen with WJ diluting an already overserviced market.

How cheap is it gonna be when it's(if?) only WJ serving Whitehorse? Im not including AC in this 'cause I personally believe their days are numbered regardless.

As for the Q, do you really think people will want to fly in that sardine can interior for for more than 2 hours, listening to that engine/prop drone, if they have an alternate choice, with complimentary inflight service, of flying in a 737-400/500? Ever tried taking a shit in a q400 lav? Ever tried storing a q400 in -40c temps, outdoors and have everything work the next morning? I have, and Q400 comes up short everytime vs the boeing. Personally, I see no faster way for WJ speed up its demise in whitehorse than introducing the Q against jets on that route. I fly in that airplane often enough between seattle and calgary and it sucks. Way too cramped, lavs and seating.

So what is the plan yellowknife? I read that wj just signed an interline with canadian north? http://www.execdigital.com/press_releas ... -agreement Hows the load numbers there?

I would offer a personal comparison comment though, I have flown with both AN and WJ, and I do prefer AN's inflight experience over WJ, anytime. I've seen some snotty comments about "hot cookies and sandwiches" in other replies, indicating that those free offerings have little significance, etc, etc. You know what? It does. Also, no stupid cheesiness during the safety briefing, which is getting really old BTW, multiple passes beverage and snack carts, getting a WHOLE can of pop/juice instead of shotglass amount, tastier coffee, and oh yeah, mints.
In comparison, one(maybe 2) passes with the coffee water shotglass beverage cart, an offer to buy headphones, an offer to purchase a $10 sandwich/chips/small bottled water combo, if they have it. but there is tv, usually, and yes, I don't have recheck security/bags if continuing on. That is really the only thing AN needs because current pricing is about $40 avg difference, so no big deal unless one is on welfare.
Does WJ o[en up the bar when flights are delayed? I know AN does because they did that when the jetwalk wouldnt work in yvr a year ago. Not their fault in any way, but they were sorry for our inconvenience. When Im late with WJ, more than usual lately, I get nothing but announcements. Just saying.

May the better airline prevail in Whitehorse, and cheaper ain't usually better.

[lost in the north]

How did westjet make out,and are they going to operate this route over the winter

[C1-17]

This topic went awful quiet. Are you guys still allowed to post?

[Realitychex]

It looks like its back starting May 17th 2013 thru October 25th 2013.

It's summer seasonal service, just like the seasonal winter service to many Caribbean destinations. Nobody seems to have a problem with that.

There's absolutely nothing stopping Air North from optimizing their assets to generate the best returns for their shareholders. It's not WJ's fault Air North has chosen not to do so.