Outdated compass deviation card deferrable?

[NilsBz]

Hi!
Had a checkride with my CFI a few days ago. The compass deviation card was outdated (07/2010!!!) and I didn't catch it. According to the logbook maintenance did the annual check on the compass but apparently didn't change the placard.
My question is, is it a deferrable item? We have no MEL so we can only go by the CARs.

[sakism]

If the maintenance was completed, why would you need to defer it at all?

The information that would be on the compass card displayed in the aircraft should also have been entered into either the Journey Log/Tech records or both. Photocopy that if you need to use it - otherwise know where it is when flying.

[Colonel Sanders]

According to the logbook maintenance did the annual check on the compass but apparently didn't change the placard

Make up a new compass correction card yourself, copying the values from the logs.

Remember, you aren't swinging the compass yourself - that requires a maintenance release by someone who's hands are annointed by God, or the Queen, or somebody.

But where in the CARs does it say that the compass card itself needs a maintenance release? All you're doing is copying data from one place to another. I do that all the time, even if my hands aren't annointed by God, the Queen, or anyone else.

For example, an aircraft goes someplace for work. Particulars are entered into the journey log. When it gets home, I copy the details into the airframe log or engine log as appropriate. I'm not signing a maintenance release - that's in the journey log.

Oh well. I'm sure I will eventually Burn In Hell for my paperwork transgressions, but between now and then I'm going to have a lot of fun.

[NilsBz]

Thanks for the answers so far but that wasn't exactly what I mean. Maybe I have to be more specific:

I did the walkaround/pre-flight inspection for my checkride but didn't check the date on the compass deviation card. When I was about to start the engine the CFI saw that the compass card was totaly outdated. As it is a local VFR flight I found it no big deal and wanted to go but my CFI didn't feel that way. We checked the aircrafts logbook and the annual compass check was done, but there was no deviation card in the logbook or in the plane.
So we knew that the compass had been checked and works within the limits. But we don't have the actual results of the compass swing=compass deviation card. I still wanted to go as it is a local flight only but she asked me how I do know that the missing compass card is a deferrable item? I can't find anything in the CARs about it.

[YYZSaabGuy]

CARS 523.1303 c requires "A direction indicator (non-stabilized magnetic compass)" as one of the miniumum navigation and flight instruments to be installed. 523.1301 "Function and Installation" stipulates that "Each item of installed equipment must:
(a) Be of a kind and design appropriate to its intended function;
(b) Be labelled as to its identification, function, or operating limitations, or any applicable combination of these factors;
(c) Be installed according to limitations specified for that equipment; and
(d) Function properly when installed.

A compass without an updated deviation card reflecting the results of the last swing will arguably not "function properly", or at least I'm guessing that's where your CFI was coming from. Overkill? Perhaps. Compliant with CARS? I think so.

[CamAero]

This is from 625 Appendix C Out of Phase Tasks and Equipment Maintenance Requirements: Every operator, even private ones, have to follow the 'Out of Phase' maintenance schedule requirements.

10. Non-stabilized Magnetic Direction Indicators (MDIs)

(a) Except as provided in (b) and (c), non-stabilized magnetic direction indicators shall be calibrated, and a dated correction card installed for each indicator, at at intervals not exceeding 12 months;

(b) The annual calibration requirement of (a) does not apply to an aircraft operating under an air operator certificate, or to any large or turbine-powered pressurized aircraft, where:

(i) the aircraft is equipped with two independent stabilized magnetic direction indicators in addition to the non-stabilized direct reading magnetic direction indicator; and

(ii) a procedure for monitoring and recording the performance of the magnetic direction-indicators is detailed in the flight training unit's, or in the air operator's approved maintenance control manual approved pursuant to CAR 406 and CAR 706 respectively.

(c) The calibration requirement of (a)(i) can be postponed, for the purpose of flights commencing or terminating within the area of compass unreliability, as defined in the Designated Airspace Handbook (TP 1820), or any of a series of flights conducted within a period of seven consecutive days, where the series commences within the area of compass unreliability.


Unless (i) applies to you, your CFI, strictly speaking, I would say was correct.

The other thing that could change the answer though is the company's Maintenance Schedule Approval.

That document is essentially a 'contract' that the holder of an Air Operating Certificate has with Transport Canada, committing to maintain their aircraft and associated items on a schedule. The M.S.A. though usually specifies tolerances and can do so even for 625 Appendix C items.

One of the companies I work for has a one-month tolerance on the compass swing.

C.A.

[NilsBz]

That answers my question. Thx guys

[rapid602]

I paying for the aircraft would have told the instructor that I was going for a coffee. I am sure that once the qualified instructor figured out that he wasn't getting paid. The situation would have corrected itself promptly.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Hi!
Had a checkride with my CFI a few days ago. The compass deviation card was outdated (07/2010!!!) and I didn't catch it. According to the logbook maintenance did the annual check on the compass but apparently didn't change the placard.
My question is, is it a deferrable item? We have no MEL so we can only go by the CARs.

As a bunch of posters have pointed out strictly speaking the aircraft is unairworthy according to the narrow CAR's definition. I think it is entirely appropriate that the CFI pointed it out as the PIC is ultimately responsible for determining the airworthiness of the aircraft. Something like this can be a good way for an instructor to spark a discussion and some student homework on defects, defect reporting, deferring snags, CAR's requirements etc, an area that almost all products of todays FTU's are woefully deficient IMHO.

However I would suggest common sense would suggest that for the purposes of this flight, no unsafe condition exists and therefore the flight should continue and maintenance be alerted to attend to the compass card at the end of that flying day. If this request was denied then I would simply look back in the JL and point out every flight that listed the CFI as "crew" since the card had expired. I would then hint that maybe if she was happy flying then she should be now.....

If you want to be a real shit tell her you will drop a dime to TC enforcement if she doesn't smarten up.

[Injun]

According to the logbook maintenance did the annual check on the compass but apparently didn't change the placard

Make up a new compass correction card yourself, copying the values from the logs.

Remember, you aren't swinging the compass yourself - that requires a maintenance release by someone who's hands are annointed by God, or the Queen, or somebody.

But where in the CARs does it say that the compass card itself needs a maintenance release? All you're doing is copying data from one place to another. I do that all the time, even if my hands aren't annointed by God, the Queen, or anyone else.

For example, an aircraft goes someplace for work. Particulars are entered into the journey log. When it gets home, I copy the details into the airframe log or engine log as appropriate. I'm not signing a maintenance release - that's in the journey log.

Oh well. I'm sure I will eventually Burn In Hell for my paperwork transgressions, but between now and then I'm going to have a lot of fun.

Yes, the aircraft would not be "airworthy". Even though it may be "Serviceable".

Actually, no "annointing" is required. It's actually 2 years of College, 48 months of apprenticeship, 10 difficult TC exams (when I wrote) and a logbook to prove completion of tasks. My mommy, daddy or rich uncle didn't help pay for one good g*d damn cent of it. I forgot to mention that you actually had to work for a living to achieve these uncanny accreditations.

More commonly referred to as "acting on behalf" of the Minister of Transport rather than "annointed".

[Colonel Sanders]

My mommy, daddy or rich uncle didn't help pay for one good g*d damn cent of it

Wow. I can feel the heat of the anger from here. That sure came out of nowhere.

I forgot to mention that you actually had to work for a living to achieve these uncanny accreditations.

That was the nice thing about my engineering degree and my ATPL - I got them both out of the bottom of a crackerjack box. The same one, actually.

[Injun]

You know they stopped giving out accreditations like that in Cracker Jack boxes a long time ago. It's all in the Pink Elephant now...

Sorry, was meant to be more "witty" or "edgy" than angry. It's my time of the month and my time of the year for forum lurking.

I gotta go back to drawing someone with less "Crackerjacks" into a heated internet debate. And I make fun of losers that are into Dungeons and Dragons. This is the same except "Airplanes and Helicopters" or "Pilots and Engineers" haha.

I don't have an ATPL but do fly and have a kick-ass set of Ray-Bans.

Injun

[Colonel Sanders]

Are you still p1ssed at me because I use a cheapie beam pointer torque wrench?

PS Making fun of pilots - too easy. Like shooting ducks in a barrel. Now, where did I put my artificially-aged brown leather jacket and green aviator sunglasses ....

PPS I have been an apprentice for 20 years now. Seriously. I spend more time wrenching than flying. Still gotta get those six months full time in, and write the exams.

[Injun]

I just read that one about the torque wrenches....YEAH!! I don'y know a single AME serious about the trade with one. If one of my guys bought one or wanted me to send it for calibration I'd laugh them all the way to the Precision Torque Instruments website. If you didn't know they supply Snap-on you'd need more "tool schooling". Didn't one guy say Proto was the best?? Does that guy even use torque wrenches?

Haha. But that's not the point.

If you can make fun of pilots or acknowledge how easy it is you must be OK. And KFC is delicious.