Air Canada pilots call in sick, fatigued, and blind.

[126.7_STFU]

After going through negotiations at Jazz I can empithisze with the AC pilots regardless of whether or not this is an actually ploy by the union. The Jazz negotiations were a lot less hostile but even so I really had to consider booking off legitimately due to the " what if's offered extremely stressful. If I was dealing with lockouts, back to work legislation, and job security issues I could really see the stress level to be so high that it would be my duty to book off unfit for duty.

Our industry is trending towards the deprofessionalization our positions within an airline. Regardless of how you feel about AC as a company or the AC pilot group I feel it is important to support the benchmark that AC and Canadian Airlines pilots have fought for over the decades. We should be educating our family and friends to what is coming our way and WHY you may not be able to support your family as an airline pilot ten years from now. Google "pilots on food stamps"

Best of luck to the employees and thier families.

Another member of this website brought up Westjet, as an alternative to flying if the passengers do not like being inconvenienced for in house problems. So here is my question:

How is it that Westjet manages to accelerate year by year absent these recurrent disputes? I am sure every major airline has their problems, but I don't think it takes a PhD in Engineering to detect something is extremely fishy with Air Canada as a whole. Reading many posts on this topic, do you think this whole idea and attitude of putting yourself before the customer contributes to such problems? Like everything in business, it comes down to your customers. The whole idea that they can just "go somewhere else" if they don't like being inconvenienced time and again really doesn't sit well with me.

Thanks

[The Hammer]

Don't believe everything you read in the paper. If you looked at the cancellations on the board in YUL over 1/2 were Dash 8 and RJ flights. Different pilots and different union.

Why you ask? Weather in YUL was as low as 1/8 sm and vv of 100' at times. This also plagued several destinations along the eastern seaboard.

Several of the AC cx where the early am yul-yyz flights on a Saturday. Typically light loads and often cx and combined with the next flight (especially if there is any delay). Not abnormal with this wx as Cat 2/3 Ops cause delays that would easily mess up the yul-yyz hourly shuttle.

I think later in that broadcast they announced that Elvis was found alive living in a commune in Utah with 8 wives.

Yes approx a dozen called in sick due stress but AC has 3300 pilots. The airline is currently understaffed, even by it's own calculations and by their choice. They have relied on O/T to get the job done. Shockingly when you lock out your pilots they don't want to work O/T on a incredibly nice St. Patrick's saturday. But I guess some dipsh*t with a MBA in management didn't think of that.

PS Jazz is no different. In April there is no reserve coverage nationwide for one a/c type.

[Colonel Sanders]

If they don't like their pay, leave

Yes, that's certainly the way it works for the rest of
us, but Air Canada pilots think they are "special".

Personally, I think it's a cultural problem that has it's
roots in the fact that AC used to be part of the government,
and the current employees still act as if they are.

Frankly, you can't really blame them, because the
government acts as if AC is still part of the gov't, too!

[slowstream]

Good for the pilots for finding another way around!

The Government is wrong to intervene!

I wish the Pilot group all the success in the world in dealing with AC and getting a fair package!

Good luck gang!

[BTyyj]

If they don't like their pay, leave

Yes, that's certainly the way it works for the rest of
us, but Air Canada pilots think they are "special".

It's not that they're special, it's that if they switched airlines, it would mean a pay-cut upwards of $70 000/year generally.

[Diadem]

I don't know about you, but if I had worked for an airline for 20 years, crawled my way up the seniority list, and was finally making a decent wage with a decent schedule, I wouldn't just walk away. Would you want to start again at the bottom of the list at another company as a first officer making half what you did at AC? Why not try to improve working conditions first?

I regularly pay $1800 for return airline tickets to (any) US destination, departing from a Canadian city, so cut the $99 crap. Airline tickets in Canada are hideously expensive - so expensive that travellers cross the border to depart from a much cheaper US city.

Good for you. Your personal experiences on a select number of routes don't reflect the company's practices as a whole. I've personally flown on AC for $59, $69 and $79. The point I was making is that the travelling public expects to pay less and less, with no regard for how that might affect wages at the airline on which they're flying, and then complain about the lazy crew if the flight is so much as one minute late. It might not be the fault of the crew at all, or maybe the pilots are legitimately too sick to fly, but the passengers expect them not just to show up, but to come in early to make sure the flight goes on time. The quote from Karygiannis might have been referring specifically to the perceived job action this weekend, but I've heard similar sentiments from countless passengers on other occasions, and the way I read it he's saying that pilots can never call in sick because of the inconvenience it causes to passengers. If that same pilot had decided to work in an office instead of a cockpit, no one would question the decision to use their available sick days, but because the passengers are being personally inconvenienced they expect the pilot will never, ever be allowed to take a day off. It doesn't matter if they're so sick they can't walk; pilots will work 14 hours a day, 365 days a year, and they'll take a pay cut to cancel out the rising cost of fuel so that the almighty passengers who booked the cheapest trip they could possibly find don't have to pay an extra $10 compared to the last time they flew.
How the hell can the same people who lament the decline of commercial piloting and the "race to the bottom" then turn around and support Air Canada in trying to force wage and pension cuts on its pilots? If you expect this to be a professional industry with adequate wages at all levels, then don't complain about "hideously expensive" tickets and pilots using sick days to which they're entitled when the government prevents them from actually negotiating a new contract.

[godsrcrazy]

Anyone that thinks this wasn't a wildcat strike is a fool. Really people do these individuals think they are getting the traveling public behind them by doing what they did. To bad their names and contact information are not posted so that every traveler etc that they inconvenienced can call them and give them their best wish’s for a speedy recovery.

I love how people on this forum jump all over the fact that there are cheaper air tickets then Air Canada and some how this is the other airlines fault that Air Canada cannot compete. I would imagine that every Air Canada pilot only shop’s at the best stores not places like Costco, Wal-Mart etc as these stores are driving the labor costs etc down. I am sure they only stay in the best hotels. They only drive Canadian made car’s the list goes on and on. Point being that everyone wants a deal no matter what it is. I wonder how many on this forum never buy anything made in countries that have slave or child labor.

The truth is there are companies out there that can move people cheaper and every bit as safe as Air Canada with staff that greets you with a smile. The sad part is that none of them can ramp up fast enough to take out Air Canada. In my opinion those truly playing games calling in sick or stressed should loss their jobs and be replaced. The unfortunate part is there are a lot of Air Canada employees and innocent passengers that will be inconvenienced or financially hurt by the actions of people playing this game.

Should Air Canada executives be getting any sort of Bonus for a company that is losing money i say NOT. When Air Canada restrucrtured years back i came on this forum and could not believe that after asking pilots etc to take pay cuts they had the nerve to repaint their aircraft. I was told by people on this forum that i didn't understand it was nessesary for them to change their image.

[Colonel Sanders]

Anyone that thinks this wasn't a wildcat strike is a fool

+1

If anyone bothered to collect the text messages and emails of the
Air Canada pilots involved, it would be obvious to even the strongest
denier here that this was an illegal strike.

I've had to quit jobs and changes companies before, so I don't see
why Air Canada pilots shouldn't have to. I guess I just don't have
their sense of entitlement.

[ch135146]

Personally, I think it's a cultural problem that has it's roots in the fact that AC used to be part of the government, and the current employees still act as if they are.

Frankly, you can't really blame them, because the
government acts as if AC is still part of the gov't, too!

Bingo!

Plus, don't forget that the opposition parties and AC management also seem to think that AC is still a crown corporation. Is everybody dumb?!


Edit to add: As a so-called "legacy carrier", maybe AC is using this meaning of legacy: "anything handed down from the past, as from an ancestor or predecessor: the legacy of ancient Rome."

[MrWings]

The point I was making is that the travelling public expects to pay less and less, with no regard for how that might affect wages at the airline on which they're flying, and then complain about the lazy crew if the flight is so much as one minute late. It might not be the fault of the crew at all, or maybe the pilots are legitimately too sick to fly, but the passengers expect them not just to show up, but to come in early to make sure the flight goes on time.

When you buy your $1.99 Egg Mcmuffin, do you consider if you are giving the farmer who supplied the eggs his fair share? Is the drive-through window attendant is making enough money to make their way through college? How much profit Mickey D's is making from your breakfast?

No. You want what is advertised. You want it hot, fresh and quickly.

Then why do you expect the flying public to be an expert in airline operations and economics to determine the "fair price" that they should pay? Why is expecting a flight to be on time asking for something out of the ordinary?

You might have legitimate issues with pensions, schedules, pay, management, government, etc. But attacking your customers for taking advantage of a good deal is way off base.

[azimuthaviation]

When you buy your $1.99 Egg Mcmuffin

Or use that 1.99 and buy two shares of Air Canada and still have change leftover.

BTW farming is a taxpayer susidized endeavour for most farmers out there. If we left that industry to the laws of supply and demand, there wouldnt be a family owned farm in the country.

[DBC]

I don't get it, the article says, "CTV News had confirmed that about a dozen pilots called in sick Saturday". That's 12 out of more than 3000, not even 6 crews if any of them were augmented. Some of you guys are viciously jumping onto media spin.

[Colonel Sanders]

farming is a taxpayer susidized endeavour for most farmers out there. If we left that industry to the laws of supply and demand, there wouldnt be a family owned farm in the country

Not sure I agree with that. Plenty of rednecks around here grow pot, and AFAIK the price of it is set by supply and demand. Does the gov't regulate the pot industry, too?

[Gino Under]

The "so-called" airline industry in Canada is a joke.
The travelling public could care less about the working conditions at Air Canada or any other airline in this country. If they did, it wouldn't take labour action to start a discussion. No matter how the journalists want to spin it. Thousands of people buy 'cheap' tickets to get from here to there. The lower the price the better. Everyone knows that.
Looking around, I'd say practically every airline in this country does a pretty damed good job of getting tight wad passengers to wherever the hell they're going, in some pretty tough flying weather, with a pretty impressive safety record. But who cares? That's what they're paid to do.
Looking at the breakdown of an airfare, I'd say someone's getting their fair share and it ain't the airline, which means it ain't going to employee wages either.
If anyone suffering through the last 20 years of what the hell's gone on in this business has a problem with any employee at Air Canada booking off sick, legitimately or otherwise, needs their f**kin' head read!
This isn't about bashing any particular carrier because the disparity between most isn't worth the arguement. Don't talk to me about the service on Westjet. And since when do you charge your guests. Is that like inviting someone over to dinner and charging them for the meal?
The outflow of pilot experience from Canada should have caught Raitt's attention years ago. This issue could only lead to more of an exodus. She's focused on one issue at the moment and rarely looks at the big picture. She's letting Bargain Harold Airline employ foreign pilots and I have no doubt, she and her Ottawa Fat Cats see nothing wrong with kicking the asses of 'spoiled brat' Air Canada pilots.
Those tight wad passengers, like most, only want instant gratification.
If they're pissed because their flight got cancelled, boo hoo. It's the same crowd rushing the loto counter every Friday hoping to buy the winning ticket. The same monkeys heading home from the islands in a T-shirt, shorts and sandals to -15 degree weather in the dead of winter. Not a thought given to the cabin temperature at FL370 should a cabin depressurize.
There are times when employees are pushed to the limit and enough is enough. I get it.
Good luck to all the employees at Air Canada.
Let the government legislate. Make them legislate.
Whatever happened to the right to strike???

Gino Under

[Diadem]

When you buy your $1.99 Egg Mcmuffin, do you consider if you are giving the farmer who supplied the eggs his fair share? Is the drive-through window attendant is making enough money to make their way through college? How much profit Mickey D's is making from your breakfast?

No. You want what is advertised. You want it hot, fresh and quickly.

Then why do you expect the flying public to be an expert in airline operations and economics to determine the "fair price" that they should pay? Why is expecting a flight to be on time asking for something out of the ordinary?

You might have legitimate issues with pensions, schedules, pay, management, government, etc. But attacking your customers for taking advantage of a good deal is way off base.

I expect when I buy that Egg McMuffin that the employees are being paid adequately, and that management isn't asking them to take pay cuts so the CEO can buy another vacation home. If that's the case, I won't eat at McDonald's. I also realize that when I purchase an Egg McMuffin for $1.99 I'm not going to get a gourmet meal, and I might have to sit in the drive-thru lane for five or ten minutes while I wait to get it. If it takes fifteen minutes because two of the employees are off sick, then I understand that by purchasing a cheap meal at a cheap restaurant I got what I paid for. I don't expect to receive a meal cooked by an internationally-renowned chef, or one topped with truffles and gold leaf, or one brought directly to my vehicle within moments of me placing my order by the finest waiters in the city dressed in immaculately-tailored tuxedos. When I pay $59 for a plane ticket, I know exactly what I'm getting, and I don't complain if there's too much ice in my drink, or the flight attendants don't wait on me personally hand-and-foot, or there's a bit of turbulence. If I pay the lowest possible price for an airline ticket, I know the airline is cutting corners everywhere it can to keep prices low and fill seats, and sometimes that translates into delays. I understand that, and I'm patient about it. Others, however, aren't, and complain that crews weren't willing to come in on their scheduled days off or when they were deathly ill to keep the flight on-time. In fact, I've heard passengers complain that tickets cost too much because pilots are paid too well and live lives of luxury. I don't know about you, but I don't think $39000 a year is luxurious, and anyone who expects a first-year AC pilot to take a pay cut to keep prices low while management takes home ever-larger bonuses is out of their damn minds.
I don't blame any of the pilots for calling in sick even if they weren't actually sick; they shouldn't feel in any way disconcerted about angering passengers who expect the pilots to carry them to the plane in a litter and massage their feet during the flight, all for the low, low cost of just $79. If they still had any legitimate options available for job action, that would be another story, but they no longer have a single bargaining chip available to them.

[MrWings]

So if people stop complaining about late flights, you'll be happy?

[Rockie]

Air Canada wants a contract that allows them to move jobs out of Air Canada, and in fact they are already preparing to do so. Look what Air Canada is doing this very moment to their former child AVEOS now that they've bled it dry. Does anybody expect Air Canada pilots to just roll over and let their jobs walk out the door so as not to inconvenience some passengers for as long as it takes for the company to seriously enter into negotiations? If so, give your head a shake.

Air Canada pilots and other employee groups have had their democratic right to negotiate, and compel their employer to negotiate through legal industrial action stripped away from them by a government that clearly has nothing but contempt for democratic rights. If anybody thinks Air Canada pilots should just let the government do that so that MP dipshit can get back to Ottawa and Joe Bloggins isn't delayed on his vacation they should have their head examined.

Air Canada is targeting employee pensions for elimination that people count on for their retirement income. If you think we should let them do that without a fight you are out of your mind.

You think we should just go work somewhere else do you? Where? You have lots of money and stable full of airplanes Hedley, how about hiring some guys to fly them for you?

[Forest Gump]

The Toronto city librarians are on strike.

Where is Lisa Raitt?

[co-joe]

Good for the pilots for finding another way around!

The Government is wrong to intervene!

I wish the Pilot group all the success in the world in dealing with AC and getting a fair package!

Good luck gang!

+1

[azimuthaviation]

Plenty of rednecks around here grow pot, and AFAIK the price of it is set by supply and demand.

Maybe they can move dope around to finance their retirements.

[2.5milefinal]

At this point I don't think the AC pilots have anything to lose. They should walk out the door wild cat stile.
AND we should all support them...but unfortunately a very big number of us would not.

[pilotwannabe]

What do you mean 'they have nothing to Lose'.. they have everything to lose. After the managment came back with the proposal it was decent. Sometimes it not all about that pay increase... the majority of the deal was all the work that is getting farmed out to smaller regional carriers will stay with the AC. AC pilots decided not to take the deal.. What will happen... well lets take a guess.. the work will go to smaller carriers.. thus making AC smaller and smaller and having less power.. eventually a time will come where AC will file bankruptcy..., oh no... but by that time the regional low cost carriers (owned bythe same shareholders) will take over the routes of AC without dissruption and AC will be gone like to dodo bird.... Yes it will be several years but it will happen.. and ohno the AC RSP.. well it goes with the company bankrupt... Well lets all vote for wage increase and make AC smaller. Please dont assume all AC Pilots supportr what is happening.. the senior guys will tell you this is BS and the deal that was on the table will keep the union strong. Just my two bits..

[2.5milefinal]

Thats quite the story.
My statement was a bit of sarcasm. Keeping in mind that they are now being blamed for most of the airlines problems. Its a sad state we are all in...how low can we go.

[Dilbert Pickles]

I absolutely do not support you.

You/ AC have been paying poverty wages for junior pilots for years. Why do we all of a sudden have a problem? Yes I understand the larger issue we have going on here but.

You have been bailed out many times, and I have lost family's/ loved ones and much heart ache. Why do you deserve more than us/me? Now you have issues effecting your senior knobs that would never even make it past an inch of their own company's current psych or cognitive test that are making plus amount a year and want my support?? PLEASE.

I honestly (who can) can understand how anyone would accept having your junior pilots starting at such a disgusting wage. Why is this okay??? Would you not think 36000 a year (not to long ago) was an issue? Certainly your so called industry setting standards have improved everyone's lifestyle. I certainly wish your company the best but please- lick my left nutt if you want me support.

DP

[.......]

But this time I see the issue spread across the entire piloting profession in Canada and the future implications it will have on our jobs. And it doesn't matter where you work or who you work for nor what tier.
It's time to stand as a group of professionals (if that's what we consider ourselves) and stop the madness.
This isn't about picking favorites or chosing whom is the better to fly with (as a passenger) its about the very occupation of flying aeroplanes.
Enough.


Good luck to all involved!

Gino Under

You got that right, Gino!