AC Rampies walk off the job

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:39 am

Time will tell how long they stay out...this time. But if the company and government think legislating workers back to work and imposing a draconian contract will somehow translate to labour peace they are making a massive error in judgement.

Had the government let the negotiation process unfold as it's supposed to there would be freely negotiated contracts in place by now and none of this would be happening.

Sheer stupidity and madness.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... ldcat.html

EA757 · Post by **EA757** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:10 am

My take on this, is simply that Air Canada has the power
to take away employees rights to free speech.

These employees expressed their opinion about Lisa,
and were suspended for doing so...

To me that is a clear violation of their rights.

After all, they own the building that Lisa works in, the office that she is allowed to use, the parliament that she is allowed into. These ramp people own her, and she just isn't bright enough to know it...

But, what this boils down to is simply that Lisa knows her days a numbered and that she fully expects to be placed on the Board of Directors with Air Canada when she is turfed from government...

ogc · Post by **ogc** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:21 am

Im waiting for someone to get arrested...

Honestly, I think its going to happen shortly.

Then this has gone from ridiculous to downright scary.

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:27 am

ogc wrote:Im waiting for someone to get arrested...

Air Canada needs to IMMEDIATELY get back to the table with the rampies before that happens. One of the YUL guys was just on saying they've been ordered back but are giving the company one hour to do so or they'll walk again. I doubt neither the company or the government want news footage of workers being forcibly, and possibly violently denied their democratic right to strike.

This is a powder keg with the fuse lit.

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:31 am

...to downright stupid. I wonder what this is doing for future bookings for AC (and WJ and JAzz, for that matter.) I have to fly 1/2 way across the country next week in order to get to my job. When I booked back in February, there was the glimmer of labour unrest @ AC on the horizon. Did i want the inconvenience/stress/hassle of a.) worrying about a strike happening, or b.) having it happen while I am in transit, and getting stuck in an airport somewhere? No, so I went with the competition, even though it wasn't really a convenient time slot and, IIRC, more expensive..
With wildcats breaking out, customers will stay away, and a certain percentage will never come back.

accumulous · Post by **accumulous** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:40 am

North Shore wrote:...to downright stupid. I wonder what this is doing for future bookings for AC (and WJ and JAzz, for that matter.) I have to fly 1/2 way across the country next week in order to get to my job. When I booked back in February, there was the glimmer of labour unrest @ AC on the horizon. Did i want the inconvenience/stress/hassle of a.) worrying about a strike happening, or b.) having it happen while I am in transit, and getting stuck in an airport somewhere? No, so I went with the competition, even though it wasn't really a convenient time slot and, IIRC, more expensive..
With wildcats breaking out, customers will stay away, and a certain percentage will never come back.

Just a few wild guesses. Big fines and firings. The public has clearly had enough of AC. This will cost AC a fortune. Wouldn't be any surprise to see the carrier sold/dissolved/assets distributed/possibly re-emerge as another entity/whatever. Any miniscule iota of goodwill the carrier had left, the employees just vaporized it into the atmosphere. If AC ever needed a reason for plan B, they just got it.

ogc · Post by **ogc** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:42 am

North Shore wrote:...to downright stupid. I wonder what this is doing for future bookings for AC (and WJ and JAzz, for that matter.) I have to fly 1/2 way across the country next week in order to get to my job. When I booked back in February, there was the glimmer of labour unrest @ AC on the horizon. Did i want the inconvenience/stress/hassle of a.) worrying about a strike happening, or b.) having it happen while I am in transit, and getting stuck in an airport somewhere? No, so I went with the competition, even though it wasn't really a convenient time slot and, IIRC, more expensive..
With wildcats breaking out, customers will stay away, and a certain percentage will never come back.

Oh i agree, a few of my family members were booking flights recently I encouraged them to do the same as you.

Im just wondering what the end game is at the moment. I look at the various scenarios and all I can consistently come up with is a CCAA filing at some point.

vortac · Post by **vortac** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:45 am

One article I read speculated that this all started when Lisa The Rat was walking through the terminal and started to recieve a sarcastic thank you clap from various employees giving the stink eye.

These days, everyone feels like a herd of sheep being led to the water by just about anyone in a position of power.

I saw this coming when the conservatives started their rise many years ago. I never understood why people would vote for a government that seemed intent to ruin our peace keeping reputation, reconnect with the useless UK monarchy, destroy a free border, see to it that bruital murder is punishable by a sentence that is over in a couple years, and destroy labor relations laws that protected and brought prosperity to the citizens of Cabada for decades.

A bunch of wanna-be conservative Republicans trying make us into a former America. They'll get us there... With all the added baggage and reputation Americans gave themselves.

For those that voted for them, you got what you were too ignorant to realize would happen. Now it hits close to home.

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:46 am

North Shore wrote:With wildcats breaking out, customers will stay away, and a certain percentage will never come back.

I agree. Right to strike in labour law provides a level of certainty and structure to resolve labour disputes with the minimum disruption. It provides focus for both parties to get an agreement acceptable to both sides which results in success 98% of the time with no disruption in service.

Take that away and anarchy is the sure result because this isn't the 1800's. Enforced servitude went out a long time ago when smart people recognized giving worker's rights and a voice was good for everybody. This retarded, regressive government doesn't believe in worker's rights, and this greedy company is only too eager to take advantage of that.

This all would have been over relatively cleanly and quickly if Harper had just let the process carry on the way history has proven works.

EA757 · Post by **EA757** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:54 am

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... on-120323/

accumulous · Post by **accumulous** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:57 am

ogc wrote:
North Shore wrote:...to downright stupid. I wonder what this is doing for future bookings for AC (and WJ and JAzz, for that matter.) I have to fly 1/2 way across the country next week in order to get to my job. When I booked back in February, there was the glimmer of labour unrest @ AC on the horizon. Did i want the inconvenience/stress/hassle of a.) worrying about a strike happening, or b.) having it happen while I am in transit, and getting stuck in an airport somewhere? No, so I went with the competition, even though it wasn't really a convenient time slot and, IIRC, more expensive..
With wildcats breaking out, customers will stay away, and a certain percentage will never come back.
Oh i agree, a few of my family members were booking flights recently I encouraged them to do the same as you.

Im just wondering what the end game is at the moment. I look at the various scenarios and all I can consistently come up with is a CCAA filing at some point.

CCAA is a likely scenario at the very least. A wildcat strike was probably the very last nail. Once you fry what's left of your public customer base in an act like this, it wouldn't be any surprise if they already have the new fuselage colors all picked out for what's going to be left of this shell after the dust settles. There's a good chance the ball is rolling now and that's the end of it.

ogopogo · Post by **ogopogo** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:00 am

I'm a million-miler with AC but just booked WJA for next week's trip.

I just can't afford the risk.

vortac · Post by **vortac** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:11 am

ogopogo wrote:I'm a million-miler with AC but just booked WJA for next week's trip. I just can't afford the risk.

Congratulations.
Maybe Harper & Lisa can force you to fly with AC, for the best interests of the Canadian economy.

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:23 am

ogopogo wrote:I'm a million-miler with AC but just booked WJA for next week's trip. I just can't afford the risk.

Please send a note to Calin Rovinescu and tell him that.

CanadianEh · Post by **CanadianEh** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:52 am

You know what's funny, I bet all the money that AC is losing/will continue to lose because of their demoralized and unmotivated workforce would have more than covered the employee demands.

This is poor management 101.

accumulous · Post by **accumulous** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:58 am

CanadianEh wrote:You know what's funny, I bet all the money that AC is losing/will continue to lose because of their demoralized and unmotivated workforce would have more than covered the employee demands.

This is poor management 101.

The airline wins international awards so it's not management. It's a mass of recalcitrant employees sending the pax to WJ. Keep an eye on their load factors. The B787's won't be far behind. That'll be the first domino.

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:11 am

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/air- ... t-strike-1

Robert Tudor, an Air Canada retiree and a resident of Waterloo, Ont., spoke with CBC News at Pearson.

"It's very sad to see the decline," he said. "When I was a kid, they'd give you little plastic airplanes and lifesavers and all kinds of goodies just for the excitement of flying. Now it's just a very sad business, and frustrating for everyone."

"Everyone just wants cheap, cheap, cheap. They don't realize the investment in buildings, the investment in people, the investment in airplanes, maintaining the airplanes — it's expensive," he said. "The only place they can get a nickel or a dime is out of the workers' pockets."

So true, so sad.

CanadianEh · Post by **CanadianEh** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:16 am

accumulous wrote:
CanadianEh wrote:You know what's funny, I bet all the money that AC is losing/will continue to lose because of their demoralized and unmotivated workforce would have more than covered the employee demands.

This is poor management 101.
The airline wins international awards so it's not management. It's a mass of recalcitrant employees sending the pax to WJ. Keep an eye on their load factors. The B787's won't be far behind. That'll be the first domino.

First of all, the awards they win are usually out of North American carriers (ie: Best International Airline in North America). Air Canada is simply the best of the worst here in North America. And it's not management that wins the awards for the company, it's the hard working front line employees who go above and beyond for such an ungrateful company.

Second, isn't the role of management to carry out organizational objectives through their workforce?

If you don't think Air Canada's problems are due to bad management and our dictatorship of a government then you are stupid. Corporate culture starts from the top, just look at Westjet.

If you want to treat your workforce like garbage and as though they are a nuisance, they will reciprocate the treatment.

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:19 am

EA757 wrote:My take on this, is simply that Air Canada has the power
to take away employees rights to free speech.

These employees expressed their opinion about Lisa,
and were suspended for doing so...

To me that is a clear violation of their rights.

After all, they own the building that Lisa works in, the office that she is allowed to use, the parliament that she is allowed into. These ramp people own her, and she just isn't bright enough to know it...

But, what this boils down to is simply that Lisa knows her days a numbered and that she fully expects to be placed on the Board of Directors with Air Canada when she is turfed from government...

That's what many politicians seem to forget....Once they walk in that Parliament or Senate they get the idea that God does not exist anymore.

accumulous wrote:Im just wondering what the end game is at the moment. I look at the various scenarios and all I can consistently come up with is a CCAA filing at some point.

And all this time, I'm wondering if AC didn't "bank" on all this anger and media attention to force it's way into CCAA No2? Could this be their plan A all along??

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:20 am

CanadianEh wrote:
If you don't think Air Canada's problems are due to bad management and our dictatorship of a government then you are stupid. Corporate culture starts from the top, just look at Westjet.

If you want to treat your workforce like garbage and as though they are a nuisance, they will reciprocate the treatment.

Exactly!

accumulous · Post by **accumulous** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:25 am

Mig29 wrote:
CanadianEh wrote:
If you don't think Air Canada's problems are due to bad management and our dictatorship of a government then you are stupid. Corporate culture starts from the top, just look at Westjet.

If you want to treat your workforce like garbage and as though they are a nuisance, they will reciprocate the treatment.

Exactly!

You don't stand much of a chance managing any employee group with the magnitude of internal battles that we 'enjoy' today. Just the myriad of special interest group seniority/merger fights and all the other internal splinter group issues amongst the pilots is a prime example of what it's like herding cats. WestJet employees don't have to deal with those issues, and therefore their management groups don't have to deal with it either.

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:28 am

EA757 wrote:My take on this, is simply that Air Canada has the power
to take away employees rights to free speech.

These employees expressed their opinion about Lisa,
and were suspended for doing so...

To me that is a clear violation of their rights.

In my opinion, that Ramp Manager/Supervisor who allegedly suspended couple of those ramp guys should be suspended! He's suppose to manage and mitigate the situation, and he did exactly the opposite! He lit the fuse and made the situation worse!! He knows very well how his staff are feeling and that everyone is tense and ready to blow.....so instead of talking to this guys on the side, he sends them home!? What, now AC has moral and ethics police inside it's management and people are not allowed to applaud?!!??? But that jerk passenger can go and spit in the face of a female worker?!?

This is all spiraling down fast for AC and it's employees I'm afraid.....it is only going to get worse before things improve.

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:34 am

Clement's comment pushes buttons: Treasury Board President Tony Clement says 'see you guys on West Jet' as he passes strikers infuriates workers at Pearson.

Fine example by the same people who we pay TAXES to be there!!??? What a flipping joke this government has become

tbaylx · Post by **tbaylx** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:41 am

You really expect workers to consider a PR campaign for public support? What's been happening is plain for you to see, you just don't give a rat's ass cause it doesn't affect you..yet. When Lisa Raitt legislates you back to work after your employer demands a wage cut or similar then maybe you'll understand. In the mean time the AC employees are simply doing what they have to do to get there voices heard. The company has been serving Sh*t sandwhiches to it's employees for years, now that the Conservatives have tried to take away their right to fair bargaining the line is being drawn in the sand. I don't even work for them and i'm mad as hell at my MP and Lisa Raitt and have let them know about it in no uncertain terms. Perhaps if enough people contact their MP's and voice their displeasure and enough votes start going away they will listen up.

The sad part is the bargaining process wasn't even given a chance. AC has had labour issues for years, but they'e always got it done without the government intervening. The irony is Ms. Raitt has made the problems far worse than if she just stood aside and let the process take it's due course. A arbitrated contract forced upon the company and the employees won't serve either sides needs. AC management really needs to go back to MBA school and take the employee relations 101 course. I may not be a kool aid drinker, but at least Westjet makes it's employees and their opinions an integral part of its business. A lot of aviation management in North America could learn a few things from watching WJ management and how they deal with employees. Perhaps if AC did that they wouldn't have the issues they are facing today.

willing to fly · Post by **willing to fly** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:45 am

I support the workers of Air Canada 100%. It should be no surprise to anyone that if the goverment plays fast and loose with the rules, so will some employees.

Unfortunately, Lisa Raitt is a customer of Air Canada. If I flipped off one of my customers because I didn't like them or the way they treated me in the past, I would be lucky if my company only suspended me.

These workers were pissed and acted emotionally in the moment. Unfortunately that may only act to weaken their position with the government in the long run. The only positive I can see coming out of this is some press showing the average Canadian the employees side of the story.

I can't help but feel as if suspending these three employees can be likened to the assisination of Franz Ferdinand. Things didn't really go well for the Germans after that.

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