Prices of light aircraft in Quebec

[robertsailor1]

Why are the asking prices on light aircraft so bloody high in Quebec?? Are owners actually getting these prices??

[Genetk44]

After perusing most of the online used aircraft for sale pages I'd have to say its not only Quebec but all of Canada. Asking prices for used light aircraft such as 172s, seem to be 20-30k higher in Canada Than in the US for similar aircraft. I can only assume its due to one or more of the following
1) owners with an over-inflated sense of what their aircraft are worth
2) smaller pool of used aircraft for sale....scarcity breeds higher prices
3) buyers are actually paying the higher prices asked

Also keep in mind that some of these aircraft have been on the market for over a year or even longer.

[robertsailor1]

OK that makes sense but I'm seeing much higher prices in Quebec. It seems prices there are 20% plus higher than anywhere else in Canada.

[Genetk44]

Ok...could it be less numbers of light aircraft for sale in Quebec than in Ontario? Or BC?
Maybe fewer aircraft available for sale=higher prices.

[robertsailor1]

Thought they had some sort of tax that was pushing prices up, its not everyday that you see a Tripacer for $59,000

[Genetk44]

Well..pst? Gst? No hst in Quebec I think.

[1000 HP]

Aircraft prices are at record lows in the USA. I'd sell my Canadian bird if I could, but I'll never get my money back. I would like to upgrade so I may just end up owning 2 machines until the market improves. It is definitely a good time to buy right now. Just buy from the states.

[rigpiggy]

remember most of canada bought planes when the dollar was at .65/us so the response being this 172 cost me 75k in 1990, it had to have inflated somewhat.

[Genetk44]

@rigpiggy.....probably very true.
@1000HP......the only problem I see with buying from the US is that everything I've read is that it can be a real nightmare , and very expensive sometimes, getting it certified and registered by TC, especially aircraft that are over 10 years old or have had any mods. Again, I'm not claiming to be an expert, it's just what I've read here and in other forums.

[robertsailor1]

Its not that hard to import aircraft, I've done it many times. Yes our aircraft have dropped in value and thats not likely to change. I've been watching aircraft for sale and I really do notice that planes in Quebec are asking much higher prices, I was just wondering if they are getting them.

[YCL Boy]

Do you have an Example of what your talking about ???

[robertsailor1]

There are lots of examples on Barnstormers web site. Go to Piper, then to Pacer PA-20 one for sale at $49,500 normally mid 20's to low 30's anywhere else. Look up Frank Lablanc Aircraft Sales in Quebec. He's got a Piper PA-12 X for $92,000 with the stock engine.

[robertsailor1]

Just took a look at his site and he has another pacer he's asking $69,000 for...now that is lulu land prices.

[Genetk44]

Yeah..I've seen his aircraft advertised on trade-a-plane, generalaviation.ca! Controller.com and he is asking for prices that seem quite a bit higher than others.
Well if it's that easy to import aircraft from the US then I'd think the folks here asking these high prices would be sh*t out of luck. I've seen half a dozen in the US that I'd be interested in.

[robertsailor1]

I thought there might be some sort of protectionism going on in Quebec, some form of import taxes or huge red tape....something that would allow prices to be as high as they seem to be there.

[Genetk44]

Well I've never bought a plane here myself, but friends who have haven't mentioned anything like that.....I guess the question is...how many actually sell?

[Louis]

I'm gonna go with Genetk44: how many actually sell at the listed price?

Either this Leblanc fellow isn't doing very well nowadays, or more likely, there are some serious reductions before the sale goes through.

There's no Quebec-specific protectionism when it comes to aircraft imports. Pay the taxes (GST and QST), do the usual paperwork and procedures with Transport, enjoy.

[cgzro]

125Hrs TTAF

Whats a properly rebuilt fuse/wings/fabric worth ?

I'm guessing it costs well north of 50K to put a 1947 certified fuse/wings/fabric back to like new ...

Of course if its not properly done its not worth it...

Point is that the value of an aircraft is in the remaining life of its components. Most 30K planes you see will need a new engine, hoses, prop and fabric work very soon. Which together will easily get maintenance bills in the 70K range. I don't think its unreasonable for an owner to at least try to get some of that invested money back?

Note sure about other aircraft in Quebec being more/less expensive... certainly the ones I see advertised in Gatineau don't seem any better or worse price wise than anywhere else.

[Cat Driver]

I have a Cub project in Pitt Meadows that I hope to finish this summer.

At this point I have $52,000 invested in it.....

....gotta finish it.

[Shiny Side Up]

OK that makes sense but I'm seeing much higher prices in Quebec. It seems prices there are 20% plus higher than anywhere else in Canada.

Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but the last 4 airplanes I have seen bought here that I thought went for pretty good prices, went to their new homes in Quebec. Incidentally one of them was a tri-pacer. Possibly the market for little planes out there is in enough demand that someone figures they can make a buck or two flipping them quick?

Just from doing my own shopping right now, a lot of planes are hideously overpriced right now in Canada. Many of them I've found I would say the guys aren't really motivated sellers.

[seasonaldriver]

I haven't checked PQ prices with the rest of Canada but I'm pretty sure that after you import a US aircraft to Canada, after having paid for the trip down to the States to look at it, done a prepurchase inspection to Canadian standards, flown it back to Canada, done an import inspection and paid for all the work necessary to bring it to "Canadian" standards, that everything just about equals out. A buddy of mine just bought an American C177RG and spent over $20k doing all the necessary things to make it legal in Canada. Got a good deal in the end, but not as good a deal as it looked at first glance. Point is, US aircraft are generally not that great a bargain when compared to Canadian aircraft. Are there exceptions? Sure! But in general, you get what you pay for.

[robertsailor1]

You can get screwed on buying a Canadian aircraft as well. If you do your homework and know what your doing its very easy to get a good deal on an American aircraft. I've imported a couple of dozen over the years and never had a bill any higher than a normal annual inspection. Yes you do have to allow for the time and travel for sure and if you value your time it may not make sense because it does suck up a great deal of time. I've never put much value on my time when I go aircraft shopping because its too much fun.

[cgzro]

Its pretty easy to get screwed buying any airplane. Even short periods of non-use can lead to light rusting on the camshaft/lobes and then premature wear a year later. You really need to spend some good money up front on a detailed inspection, the equivalent of an annual or more and many people are reluctant to do so, especially with a foreign owned aircraft. For example on a Lycoming that has sat for any period more than a month should have the camshaft and lifters inspected ... and that means pulling a cylinder.
Miss that and it'll run you 30K ...

[robertsailor1]

Well that only covers about 80% of all the Lycomings owned by private operators...a bit much wouldn't you say!

[Colonel Sanders]

a Lycoming that has sat for any period more than a month

That needs to be qualified as to location, and time of year.

For example, a Lycoming which sits for a month in Key West in July
at 100F, 100% humidity and all the salt you can stand, is going to
be rusted as Peter describes.

However, a Lycoming which has sat for a month in Winnipeg in January
with no salt or moisture in the air is probably going to be ok if the owner
left W100 in it.

PS Most privately-owned Lycomings are a mess as far as cam and
lifters are concerned. That's why Lycoming has gone to roller cams!