convert nz cpl to canadian cpl

[arsenal4life]

hey hii there guys..im currently a new zealand cpl holder..with multi engine rating...i m planing to move to canada bcoz of my patner...plz help me and guide me with info regarding what i need to do to get my licence converted...as i have no clue abt the aviation scene out there as i had never planed on going to canada in my life...thanking u in anticipation..
safe flyin...

[HighBypass]

Where where you two working for in NZ if you dont mind me asking? Or did you just complete your CPL's in NZ and were just looking for work?

[200hr Wonder]

Don't forget about a good Canadian roommate to teach you about hockey (GO Canucks GO!), introduce you to some fine Canadian beer and more or less help destroy your liver for a few months.

[ptc]

also do not forget to get a work visa otherwise

[Fr8 dawg]

I ask why, WHY the flying F*$(#@! would anyone leave New Zealand to move to Canada ??????? Are you kiddin' me???
Are you aware of what you're getting yourself into ??

Have you looked at what third world health care looks like? Pilots flying Boeing and the homo Airbuses and making less than a plumber? Narco-states like British Colombia ? Does "snow, hockey & dope" sound attractive to you? Are you kidding me???

Get yourself a real life and job, you can work in Burnei, the Aussie, Uk, Singapore, Dubai or most of Africa. Your kids will thank you when the grow up. Canada is great for Dope dealers and doctors, not pilots.
Dunedin is as good as gold in the summer, mate. Your broad ain't worth it, believe me.

[Beefitarian]

Mmmmmmm, look at the grass on the other side of the fence. That's some green tasty looking grass there.

[nzharvey]

Gidday Iced Kiwi and everyone,

First of all, thanks a lot for your helpful info on converting from NZ to Canadian License.
I am living in NZ and am currently in the process of organising everything necessary to do this. I intend to do the full shebang, CPL MEIR once there. General info on me is that ive got 2000 hours Total, 1700 on Single Engine Turbine. 40 Multi IFR...Im very keen to get onto a PC-12 or something along the lines of a King Air if at all possible..

Ive done the Canadian Medical here in Auckland and am gaining traction on things falling into place. I am intending to use the International Experience Canada Visa (basically a working holiday visa) to arrive and get into Canada for the first 12 months (max validity period). This allows me to get an open visa and not need a job confirmation first before arriving.

The issue i now have, and is of major concern, is i need to get a Temporary Work Visa after this expires. This requires a Company to apply for an LMO (Limited Market Opinion - im sure your well familiar with these), but requires the government to approve the Temporary Visa for Foreigners.

An exert below from the CIC website.
"The confirmation is a letter from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC) to your employer stating that having a foreign worker do the job you are going to do will not have a negative impact on the labour market in Canada. The HRSDC confirmation is also called a positive labour market opinion.

Your employer has to apply to get an HRSDC confirmation. HRSDC looks at several factors, including the availability of Canadians, wages and the economic benefit you as a foreign worker might bring to Canada. Once HRSDC has formed an opinion, it then provides advice to Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

The HRSDC confirmation is usually given for a specific period of time. The work permit will be issued for the same period. To extend your work permit beyond the specified period, your employer will usually have to get a new confirmation from HRSDC."


My question is, how likely is it that a company will;
a)Offer me work based on my initial visa only allowing 12months
b)Want to apply for an LMO (id cover the expenses for that if necessary)
c)The HRSDC actually Approving my application?? It says they need to make sure no other Canadian can do the job, AND i am what they need...

What was your visa route you took? How did you do it? In your opinion in the current aviation market how likely possible could it be to get a job? Ive got the motivation, got the financial backing, and the time, but just need to know its even possible?!

If anyone else has any knowledge on this it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much for taking the time,
Im looking forward to a reply,

Cheers!

[Colonel Sanders]

Canada is great for Dope dealers and doctors

I'm not a doctor - never even got my PhD - so what does that make me?

[Cat Driver]

and the homo Airbuses

What do you know about Airbus that I missed Fr8 dawg?

[youngtimer]

Can I trade you guys? Having lived and done schooling in NZ, I'd move my family there in a heartbeat. How tough is converting a Canadian ATPL (or FAA, I have both) to a NZ and what is the job situation down there. I'd be all over running a 146 around the islands but overall, I'm guessing they don't need any extra pilots down there...

[tester]

Whether it is a good idea to be considering a flying job in Canada is clearly your choice no matter how much advice you get from those already here and in - or trying to get into - the industry. Also getting the Canadian licences is a relatively straightforward process, although it won't seem so when you're trying to navigate your way through the various steps TC will require you to tread. But neither of these things is really likely to stop you getting a license and, eventually, getting a job. What will stop it all, or, more accurately, won't let you start, is not having the required visa!

Without a visa you won't get a job! So if you're serious about working over here get your visa application into the system as soon as you can. There are different types of visa and this is not the site to go into details of what types there are and what would be best for you, but take a look at: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/ which is the government's visa site. There are also plenty of other sites you will find on a google search, offering to do the work for you - at a fee of course!

We came to Canada from the UK in 2005. It took about 18 months to get our Permanent Resident's Visa through at that time and about 4 months for the work visa (which wasn't for a flying job and which, in the event, we didn't actually need after all).

Good luck!

[nzharvey]

Hi tester,

Thanks for the info. I am in fact a lot further down that road than most, and have research a lot in terms of CPL and MEIR conversions and so am happy on that note. Likewise im also happy with getting a 'Working Holiday Visa' from NZ which will give me 12months unrestricted time in Canada. However, this is where i come unstuck. I do understand after that period (or ideally, much before that time is up) ill need to get a temporary working visa. This i understand, depending on the location in Canada, will require an LMO.
To get the LMO the company needs to;
A) Supply me with a working contact and offer of employment
B) Apply to the government for an LMO and application to allow me to work for them in Canada...(over an above canadian pilots).

That is my question, how likely and what information is out there that companies will infact be willing to go down this road of effort. Im willing to give time, effort, financial backing and everything else that goes along with it, but, do they, can they and have they done this often to foreigners over and above Canadians?

I guess im merely trying to get a moral boost and also a realistic voice of what i could expect with the time and experience i could offer...

Iced Kiwi has been nice enough to mention there is such thing as 'Nominee Visa's ' for places up north like the Yukon and out of the way from Ontario and such. This goes a long way to helping the matter. I suppose im just asking the golden question, has anyone worked with temporary foreigners whilst flying with a Canadian company?

[ptc]

Hi nzharvey,

With regards to a company "sponsoring" you for a work visa while I would not say it is impossible I would imagine that they would have to prove to the government that they are unable to find a qualified Canadian for the job.
My wife ran into this problem about 6 years ago when the company she was working for was unable to secure a visa for her. Due to this fact we moved to NZ (she is a Kiwi) and I got a flying gig down there, now we are back in Canada and applying for her permanent residency.

Take a look at all your options with regards to visa's, I do recall that the "working holiday visa" can actually be extended to 2 years however I cannot recall the program that allows you to do this so suggest a quick google search.

As for the conversion process I recommend taking the Aerocourse of a similar course, as you are already flying it will get you up to speed with Canadian regs, etc and put you in a good position to write the exams.
Nice thing about the IFR flight test is that you only do 2 approaches and 1 hold (1 non precision and 1 precision) unlike NZ where you have to get endorsed on different Navaid types.

Best of luck.

[tester]

Unfortunately, I'm not the right person to answer your questions about maybe getting sponsorship to get you a visa etc., as I didn't have to jump through that particular hoop when job hunting over here. I'm sure someone on this thread will pick it up for you though.

As for other aspects of job hunting though, as you may have already noticed from looking through AvCanada job postings, there is often a common experience requirement running through many of them and that is the need for Multi-PIC flight time. Of course, if the job you really want only requires SE-PIC, then you don't have a problem, but to get a King Air job, you'll almost certainly find that Multi-PIC is what they're after. For an FO job you might only need 100hr Multi and maybe no Multi-PIC, but for a captain position, 500 hr Multi-PIC seems a common requirement. Of course, it all depends on your goals, but if you really want to break into the multi world on the King Air, it would be worth considering an FO post and build from there. Many companies have schemes for bringing-on their people starting in a non-flying position (Ramp, Dispatch, Office etc.) then into King Air right seat, then left seat after a couple of years. Competition for those FO posts is fierce and trying to get taken on at a popular location is very difficult, but if you're prepared to go where others won't and if you show you are a hard-worker, anything is possible.

[nzharvey]

Hey thanks Tester and PTC.

Unfortunately looking into the Working Holiday Scheme, it says it is most definitely non extendible. So that means a quick 12 months to find someone willing to sponsor and deal with the LMO issue.

Yea its been awhile since actually sitting all exams and knowing the in depth details, so ill be sure to try out at a flying school for a ground course refresher for CPL and MEIR.

The multi requirements are much the same down these ways naturally for that. Id be happy for a FO job on a multi or SE - doesnt phase me, as long as at some point theres movement into a multi. Im prepared to travel, but its looking more likely it might have to be up to the north... somewhat cooler than the Pacific.

Is it unusual for a fella to be picked up and employed when he is only on a 12 month Working Holiday Visa? Ive seen a similar question posed previously that didnt seem to hail very positive results...

[tester]

Hi Nzharvey,

As with any job posting/hiring, the employer is always going to choose the best option for them, so I've no doubt they would prefer to hire a pilot who, first of all, has the right to work in Canada, with "no strings attached", and has all the experience/qualifications required to do the job. But employers can't always find the ideal candidate, particularly for jobs that are located in unpopular areas, or where the job itself is unattractive. So they sometimes have to compromise and take pilots who don't fit their desired profile exactly, but are close enough. You might get lucky and be available just when a post needs filling, but I believe you really shouldn't assume that will be the case. For one thing some employers will require you to sign a bond for at least a year and that might not be possible for you if your maximum stay in Canada is limited to 1 year by your holiday/work visa.

I suggest that your chances of getting a job offer would be significantly enhanced if you were able to get some other kind of visa to live/work here. For example, it's probably worth looking at the Permanent Resident's visa - it works on a points system similar to the equivalent visa in NZ. It will probably take 1-2 years to come through assuming you make the points required, but once you have it you will definitely have the right to live and work here. Then the only thing left for you to do is show employers that you have the flying qualifications/licences/experience required. The situation you really don't want to be in is having all the required flying requirements and not get a job offer because you have "excess baggage" on the visa side of things.

You only have to browse through the job postings on AvCanada to see that the job market is very buoyant over here at the moment, but if you look in detail at the sort of postings that would interest you, are there any, where if you were the employer, you would consider awarding the post to someone who only had a holiday/work visa? Basically, what I'm suggesting is that you need to put yourself in the position of the employer looking for pilots and need to ask yourself whether you would award the position to yourself. If the answer is "No" you need to fix whatever needs fixing to make it a "Yes".

Sorry if that's not the encouraging message you would have preferred, but I believe it is realistic. Good luck with your search for the best visa.

[nzharvey]

Hey all,

Thanks for your helpful info and input above, I appreciate it! I have now booked tickets and will be arriving into Toronto June 1st. All is go and ive been approved for everything so far plus have my Canadian Medical completed.
All that needs now is for me to complete everything necessary for the conversion.

I am looking into Harv's Air (http://www.harvsair.com/) and their Online Ground School that they offer. Has anyone heard of them being used and can anyone suggest if i should or shouldnt use them for a quick refresher for my CPAER and INRAT exams? Because i do not need to do a full CPL ground course, i figure this could be a good priced alternative to waiting for a course to come up at a Flight School.

Im also planning on doing the flight tests etc at Toronto Airways based at Buttonville Airport in Toronto. Does anyone have any good points or helpful points for me in that aspect?

Thanks once again,
Would be great to catch up for a brew with some of you once i arrive.

[lilflyboy262]

Hey Harvey,

I've just been through all the conversion process. Its a bit strange and you will get told a bunch of different things from different people.

Here's what I found out.

You do not need to go to a ground school. Your NZ licence waves the ground school time requirement.
Having someone spend some time with you to cover some of the met charts like the GFA's would be a smart idea though. I did the CPAER exam (required for the CPL licence) over the course of 2 weeks with some very solid self study. Everything you require for it can be found online, with the exception of the book, "From the ground up." Get your hands on that, it can be very useful.
Get a chart of the local area, they are a little different to NZ charts. For the most part they are the same, but the information is presented a little differently.

If you PM me your email, I will email you all the stuff I used for study.


From the mouth of a Transport Canada employee in Vancouver. You do not need to write the PSTAR exam. You need this to go solo. For the CPL flight test, the flight examiner can be the Pilot in Command, therefore you are not solo. Make sure you are up to speed with your VOR tracking. You are required to intercept and track a radial as part of your CPL flight test.

You do not need a recommendation flight for your CPL flight test. Your NZ licence covers that.

For your night rating to convert over, you will need to show that you have done 2hrs of night x-country. If you have only been circuit bashing, then unfortunately you cannot convert your night rating with your licence.

For your multi rating. If you have been issued your multi rating in the past 12 months, or have done 50hrs PIC in the past 12 months, then your multi rating will be issued with your licence. If not, then you will have to do a multi rating. For the multi rating, you will be required to do everything that would be in a type rating such as aircraft specific speeds, systems, and emergency drills. Stalls, Steep turns and will simulate an engine failure on the overshoot at altitude.
Will come back for a normal circuit, and then an asymmetric circuit and landing.

For your IFR, you will need to write the INRAT ground exam. There is a bunch of stuff here that you will have never seen before. They do things differently here than in NZ. Some very big differences with reversal turns as well as an approach called the contact approach. I suggest a ground school course for this.
You will then need to sit an actual flight test for the issue of your IFR.

I suggest writing another exam called the IATRA. It is required to fly as a co-pilot on a two crew aircraft. Should you be lucky enough to land a gig on something like a B1900 or larger, then you will need it.
Again, I have all the study material for this if you need it.

I'm not too sure on how fixed you are in where you should do your training, but I have a suggestion. Harv's air seemed like a pretty good outfit, but for the multi engine training they use Beech Travelairs. They have a really messed up throttle quadrant where in normal aircraft it is the throttles, props and then mixture levers. In the Travelair it is Props, Throttles and then Mixtures. Can be a bit confusing to get used to using. May require extra time to get used to, and in a twin, that means extra $$$
I used Winnipeg Aviation (I think it was called that!!!), it is right next door and they are using Piper Scenica's instead. The instructors are pretty good and experienced. Only problem is that they are located at St Andrews Airport. It is a little bit out of the way, and you will probably have to get a hire car to get there every day.

I did all my CPL training at ProIFR in Boundary Bay, Vancouver. Good bunch of guys. Had never really dealt with a foreign licence conversion though, so we were bumbling our way through it!
They offer a great IFR ground school which is done every month, over the course of 3 days. was $300 or so, and totally worth the time. Passed the INRAT exam with no problems at all. Covers all the quirks with Canadian IFR.
There is also a bus service that runs past the airport 7 days a week, so no matter where you stay in Vancouver, you can get out there and back for $10 a day. (cheaper if you buy books of tickets)
Had no issues getting a plane or my instructor. Did it all in C152's so the cost was cheap. They are also the only flight school that I have found that uses Beech Duchesses (not sure if you did your training on them, but I did.) They also have a flight simulator that you can use for around $140 an hour I think, which you can use to get the most out of your IFR training.
I suggest you give these guys a look!


Hope this helps!