Old chauvanistic pigs

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:59 am

Flybabe wrote:
Anyways, although I became more and more ticked off about it the more I thought about it, I dismissed the event because for the most part I did not want to become a shit disturber.

I think i've been insulted.

Frustrated and angry · Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:51 am

justplanecrazy:

Gee whiz man, funny you should say what you did! Seems to me like you are just promoting the whole problem here. You seem to think it's just ill-placed humor, yet you keep it going. You are just carrying on the stereotype here, that women can't solve their own problems without a man do it for them.

I was merely fishing for ideas on what the best possible way of fixing the problem was. Your solution: keep the problem going and don't address the issue.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:39 am

Well there sonny, back when JPC was a young man women knew their place, barefoot and pregnant.
Some people just can't move on past old values. I have been working side by side with women my whole career and I have a high level of respect for what these girls endure.
I'm not sure if it was this string or not, but someone wrote "walk a mile in their shoes, than you can talk". Follow a nurse around as she performs her duties in emergency. By the end of her shift their is a good chance she will have been puked on, peed on, swore at, and threatened. Most don't retire due to back injuries or stress related problems. They have had several marriages, and they can take at least ten years off their life expectancy due to shift work. This is in a traditionally female job, imagine what life must be like for them in a male dominated career.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:04 pm

Careful there shitdisturber, from what I know of Flybabe she can fly circles around a great many of her colleauges...

Cat

Frustrated and angry · Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:08 pm

I well realize what women have gone through, both now and way back when they were "barefoot and pregnant" but amazingly, times have changed. Is it so hard to ask for people to change as well?

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:39 pm

I ment that more for JPC. It's good to keep these guys honest.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:19 pm

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=872

LoL, looks like she should quit and work as an FA. More money in that.

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:17 pm

ROTFLMWWAO

"shitdisturber"... no, you weren't insulted, the term just fit the situation. LOL.. I was, however, wondering if you were going to say something

I've written and re-written responses for this thread but again am electing to keep my mouth shut. All I can say is, there are two sides, let's not forget the one while only hearing the other. Might have a point, might not.. but until then there may be extenuating circumstances.

. - 602 at the end of the summer... wooowee!!

patter · Post by **patter** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:52 pm

So is the issue advancement, or is the issue old boy network, or is it chauvinism? If you talk to a CP I suggest you stay on a topic. And the one I suggest is your girlfriend's future advancement, and when (not if) it is going to happen. And you never say things you might want to take back later.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:59 pm

Frustrated and angry wrote:
You are just carrying on the stereotype here, that women can't solve their own problems without a man do it for them.

I was merely fishing for ideas on what the best possible way of fixing the problem was. Your solution: keep the problem going and don't address the issue.

So why are you on here and not your girlfriend. Sounds like you're fighting her problems for her. All Im saying is that you should talk to the guy!!!

Maybe he's raised 25 daughters and pulling hair, telling them to clean their room and rassing them about being the inferior sex even though he doesn't believe it, is just his way of bonding. There's nothing worse than someone who comes to conclusions without knowing the whole story. You obviously don't and it sounds like your girlfriend doesn't either. If you dont' want to fight her battles than get her to talk to the CP. Until someone talks to the guy shut the hell up! When you talk to him try and find out if he is holding your girlfriend back because of her sex and whether or not he really is a chauvanistic pig. If he is, then proceed to kick the crap out of him or file a bunch of harrasment charges. It just seems to me that people are so gun ho to destroy a guys reputation when it all could be a misunderstanding. If it is I'm sure he'll understand and the behaviour will stop.

I believe there are differences between boys and girls and if we get to the point where we can't joke about it, its going to be a pretty freakin' serious day.

I bet you're one of those guys thats all for lowering standards to let women into certain work forces as well as women competing in the PGA.
I'm not a big guy. I won't be pissed off at the fire department for not hiring me because I can't carry 200Ibs on my back while running down the stairs. I bet you'd be pissed off if they didn't hire your girl because of this. In the same way if girls can compete in the PGA and take away the low end salaries of the bottom men, then the men should be allowed to compete in the WPGA and take away the high pay salaries of the woman.

What are my views on the whole female pilot issue?

There are things men are good at and things that women are good at bottom line. I haven't seen any studies out there that deal with this in respect to Aviation but from my personal experiences I found the woman are better at the cockpit multitasking while the men tend to be better with unusual attitudes and stick and rudder. Probably the same reason why all the people racing cars and playing in the pro level of sports are men. That being said I don't think its fair to discriminate a person based on their sex. I do feal that its fair, based on their performance. I think that women could easily outperform men in an IFR environment. And men could outperform them in a skills competition. The results would probably be fairly close and there would probably be people of one sex that could outperform people of the other sex in both competitions. I don't expect to be held to a different standard because of my size and I don't feel the woman should be held to a different standard because of their sex. Set a performance standard and whoever makes the cut makes the cut.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:10 pm

Flybabe, i'm one of those people who goes through life trying to find the funny side in everything; your post was too good an opportunity to pass up even for someone with way more will power than I have.

ASRS · Post by **ASRS** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:20 pm

justplanecrazy .... heard somewhere that the plane doesn't care if you are a man or a woman .... just a pilot

Frustrated and angry · Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:02 pm

justplanecrazy wrote: I believe there are differences between boys and girls and if we get to the point where we can't joke about it, its going to be a pretty freakin' serious day.

I bet you're one of those guys thats all for lowering standards to let women into certain work forces as well as women competing in the PGA.
I'm not a big guy. I won't be pissed off at the fire department for not hiring me because I can't carry 200Ibs on my back while running down the stairs. I bet you'd be pissed off if they didn't hire your girl because of this.

I certainly agree with you on that. I don't believe in lowering standards in the workforce to suit anyone. I wouldn't be pissed off if she didn't get hired by the fire department at all. My problem is not that I don't think there are enough women in aviation, but that she is being treated unfairly because she's a woman. The airplane doesn't care who's flying, so why should the CP make it an issue, even jokingly.

Set a performance standard and whoever makes the cut makes the cut.

As for a performance standard, she meets all requirements for advancement, been promised it and threee times now she's been told she'll be trained but it hasn't happened. I'm sure there's a reason why, but then tell her, and don't hire less qualified people ahead of her into the position she was offered.

The reason I came on here was to try and find a good way to address the issue without wrecking anyone's career, or stepping on anyone's toes.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:22 am

You know I have given this some thought and I got to tell you F & A that you girlfriend is not the only person being promised advancement and not getting it when promised. This seems to be an industry standard. All inappropriate fondling aside, I hope that this is not being used as a vehical to try and jump the cue on some of the other up and coming pilots who though may not have pigtails to pull, are still waiting on the advancement promised to come their way as well. This tact may work once or twice, but the old addage don't cry wolf too often, come into play here. Fight the battles worth fighting and keep the crap to a minimum.

Frustrated and angry · Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:30 pm

She's not trying to use her sex, and the issue at large here, to try and get the advancement. It just seems that it's one more issue that lines up with the other problems. Maybe there is no real major problem and the CP has no clue what is going on. It's hard to say without talking to him, and going by the suggestions on this forum, that will be the plan. Here's hoping it turns out for the best.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:11 pm

F & A, that was not a accusation. You asked for some advice and we are giving it to you. It is not entirely uncommon for these types of tactics to be used to get ahead. Just some friendly advice from someone who has seen it before. It may work once but you stand the chance of losing all respect of your peers. The old addage "Be kind to those that you meet on the way up as you may have to kiss theirs asses on the way back down again." comes into play here. Make sure this is a bridge that you want to cross and don't catch it on fire for your partner as you pass over it.