Sunwing Adds To Fleet

[oh yeah baby]

Hey Gilles, you do realize your company was the first to bring over foreign pilots without reciprocal agreements through CJ? Sunwing was one of the groups that opposed it to the government. AT opened the door to WestJet Vacations and the foreign temporary workers. If your quickly losing market share and wonder why go look in the mirror. If your upset about the winter program wait until the wide bodies show up. And they are coming.

For the record I think the temporary foreign program is a load of shiit.

You are right about Westjet... but i should remind you that Canjet had to hire foreign pilot to fight your third world wages and working condition. Start by flying your own heavy airplane with no dry lease inside your company and then the canadian pilot will give you credit for the hard competition. In the meantime you should spend more time around the bargainning table with your spinal cord trying to get a decent contract for the benefit of the rest of your fellow pilot. In french we would refer you as ''lopette de service.''

[ea306]

SWG have lower wages than CanJet? Really? Might want to cross check your information on that one....

We all want to see more Canadian pilot jobs. But we also want to see these job last a long long time. I am personally tired of having my airline go bankrupt from underneath me. So I hope SWG continues to enjoy profitability.

Sunwing Arline's growth is also decided by the Sunwing Travel Group. If the lift needs to be increased, the tour operator will do as it always has. Wet lease or buy product on foreign carriers such as Alaska Airlines etc....or expand the airline. Which ever is the financially prudent thing to do to ensure profitability.

I am very happy to see 40 FO upgrades to Captain and happy to see hiring happening... I do have mixed feelings about the potential for the increase in Wet Leased aircraft. Rumors are there could be a lot more wet leased aircraft doing Sunwing Vacations flying next winter. Lift provided by foreign carriers for a Canadian Vacation company means.... No Canadian pilot jobs....

How many wet lease aircraft will there be? I don't know. I have a hunch that it will be more than the wet leased aircraft being sent to Europe this summer. I prefer to see dry leased aircraft and the potential for more Canadian pilots to be hired to fly those aircraft. The wet lease route pretty much closes the door for us Canadian pilots.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

So I hope SWG continues to enjoy profitability.

Source or reference please ? That statement covers a question many people are asking.

[rudder]

So I hope SWG continues to enjoy profitability.

Source or reference please ? That statement covers a question many people are asking.

Gilles,

The answer is to get them in front of a Commons Committee under oath to answer questions.

The problem is that representatives of the Minister of Labour and Minister of Transport should be called to answer questions as well, and that is why getting that committee hearing will be difficult.

[Sunwing738]

How many wet lease aircraft will there be? I don't know. I have a hunch that it will be more than the wet leased aircraft being sent to Europe this summer. I prefer to see dry leased aircraft and the potential for more Canadian pilots to be hired to fly those aircraft. The wet lease route pretty much closes the door for us Canadian pilots.

Well this year WG only had one wet lease from Travel Service, as to my knowledge, and it arrived shortly after new years so it was only with WG for half the winter season flying the YYZ-PUJ route. Next year I would still expect them to rack up the same 23 dry lease aircraft they had this year, if not more, and add the wet leases on top of that. If the trend stays the same as previous years they should have 25-26 dry leases, usually adding 2-3 more aircraft each year for the last 4 years. We could be looking at a fleet of potentially 30+ aircraft for Sunwing in W13. Hopefully they will add new destinations too.

Sure it might not create jobs for Canadian pilots but you have to look at the other jobs involved aswell, how many more employees would they then need to hire at their hubs to compensate for an increase in aircraft? There are so many ways it could play out, i guess we just have to wait and see.

Is there any chance of SWG getting wet leased 757's to operate Hawaii routes? I would love to see that happen.

[60N30W]

[quote="Sunwing738"][quote="ea306"]

"Sure it might not create jobs for Canadian pilots but you have to look at the other jobs involved aswell, how many more employees would they then need to hire at their hubs to compensate for an increase in aircraft? There are so many ways it could play out, i guess we just have to wait and see."


You are very right, it will not create pilot jobs for Canadians, and yes those aircraft may generate other jobs, problem is those other jobs will be low paying for the most part. That is not what the Canadian economy needs at all. Our economy needs as many high paying jobs as it can get its hands on.

Something really wrong that Europeans are getting good high paying jobs here in Canada with a Canadian company while the Canadians get the low paying jobs at the same company. That's not right, further more all that money those Europeans are making is not even staying in Canada.

Regards,

60N30W

P.S. I know a few Canadian pilots get to go to Europe for the summer, however from what I have heard they do not get treated anywhere as good as the Europeans do who come here in the winter do.

[gonnabeapilot]

So I hope SWG continues to enjoy profitability.

Source or reference please ? That statement covers a question many people are asking.

From the TUI year end financial results.... Which only account for their share of the revenue. It is important to also note that although 2010 shows a loss, Signature vacations lost $20 million the year before the merger with Sunwing so it actually marks an impressive turn around and shows that Sunwing Travel has always been profitable....

Canada is particularly pleasing where, following the completion of the joint venture with Sunwing, the business has transformed itself to become a market leader.

Canada Canada delivered an underlying operating profit of £18m (2010: loss of £5m). Following the completion of the joint venture with Sunwing in January 2010, the business has successfully transformed itself to become a market leader. The annualised benefit of synergies (airline efficiencies and back office cost savings), coupled with better purchasing and cost control and product improvements have driven the improved result which has exceeded expectations. We now consider the turnaround to be complete and expect the business to move into a phase of profitable growth.

http://www.tuitravelplc.com/investors-m ... sentations

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Canada delivered an underlying operating profit of £18m (2010: loss of £5m).

I am not an accountant, but I think where you have to be careful is in their use of the term "operating" before profit.

Operating Profit is defined as "Profit generated by a company's operations before interest payments and tax".

Air Canada regularly reports positive "Operating Profits" while at the same time reporting Net losses.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/243481/ ... lls-12.htm

The airline's operating profit was C$270 million

and from the same article,

Air Canada's net loss for the quarter was C$124 million

[Sunwing738]

As per the original topic, looks like they're adding another 737-800 to their fleet, to become C-GFOW. Ex Air Berlin bird, faily new aircraft too, only 1.7 years on the airframe. Scheduled delivery to be sometime next week. She looks beutiful with some fresh paint!! Im under the assumption that these new aircraft are for the Vacation Express deal in the summer?

[SuperTroll]

As per the original topic, looks like they're adding another 737-800 to their fleet, to become C-GFOW.

GFOW:

"Great, Friggin Outta Work" Canadian Pilots.

[ea306]

The profit quoted is the 49% TUi portion. The Sunwing portion is unknown as it is not a publicly traded company.

[DeltaHotel]

Aviation at it's worst. Degrading to all of us ...

Cheaper ... always cheaper

[ea306]

Lower Cost often means a more profitable organization.

A profitable organization means job security and more jobs.

I have seen and lived through aviation at its worst... It's not perfect, but Sunwing is far from aviation at its worst. Sunwing has weathered some potentially lethal financial storms and has prevailed and grown and continues to grow with some very impressive financial results. Results that are only partially seen through the publically reported financials of its Euro partner TUi. As mentioned before, Sunwing Travel Group and Sunwing Airlines are both privately own corporations.

The issue of concern on these threads is Sunwings use of foreign pilots. I appreciate why there is this concern even if I do not share all the views expressed. What I do see is the company responding to this concern and is hiring more Canadian pilots and it is everyone's hope that we will see this trend continue. The upgrading of as many of our FOs as can possibly be upgraded is very good news and reduces the amount of expat Captains. Even one of our more recent hires will be getting his shot at a Captain's upgrade.... (its all about timing and I am sure he is very well pleased to have this career opportunity) The hiring of more pilots to join our FO ranks will also help reduce the seasonal foreign pilot intake. My personal hope is that we pilots at Sunwing will be more involved in the seasonal Foriegn Reg flying in Europe for the summer months to counter balance the expat flying here. That will result in even more Canadian Pilots being hired. It won't be perfect, but it will mean year round employment for the new hires who are willing to fly in Europe for the summer months with one of our TUi partner airlines.

These are not "aviation at its worst" jobs as stated by a previous poster. I can tell you first hand that each year passing I make more money than I have the year before and have much more after tax income than any job I have had in Canada. For this I am very happy. Not to mention too the life experience of living and experiencing Europe for coming up my sixth summer. It's been an amazing job and I have no regrets ever coming here.

The reality of the Sunwing business model is that Sunwing requires much more lift capacity in the four winter months of the year, namely Dec, Jan, Feb and Mar as opposed to the rest of the year. I do not like the wet leasing of foreign aircraft but then who am I to say when I operate a Canadian wet leased aircraft employed by Sunwing in Europe every May, Jun, July, Aug, Sept and Oct? I just do not want to see more wet leased airplanes here next winter than what we have this summer. Namely four aircraft. This is just my thoughts..

Foriegn pilots will always be part of the Sunwing business model in one form or another. This has been a big part of the companies financial sucess. What I see happening is the company recognizing that they have to change the Balance. They are taking action. This encourages me to believe that we will see the changes that we pilots at Sunwing want to see.

Time will tell.

[.......]

Lower Cost often means a more profitable organization.

A profitable organization means job security and more jobs.

I have seen and lived through aviation at its worst... It's not perfect, but Sunwing is far from aviation at its worst. Sunwing has weathered some potentially lethal financial storms and has prevailed and grown and continues to grow with some very impressive financial results. Results that are only partially seen through the publically reported financials of its Euro partner TUi. As mentioned before, Sunwing Travel Group and Sunwing Airlines are both privately own corporations.

The issue of concern on these threads is Sunwings use of foreign pilots. I appreciate why there is this concern even if I do not share all the views expressed. What I do see is the company responding to this concern and is hiring more Canadian pilots and it is everyone's hope that we will see this trend continue. The upgrading of as many of our FOs as can possibly be upgraded is very good news and reduces the amount of expat Captains. Even one of our more recent hires will be getting his shot at a Captain's upgrade.... (its all about timing and I am sure he is very well pleased to have this career opportunity) The hiring of more pilots to join our FO ranks will also help reduce the seasonal foreign pilot intake. My personal hope is that we pilots at Sunwing will be more involved in the seasonal Foriegn Reg flying in Europe for the summer months to counter balance the expat flying here. That will result in even more Canadian Pilots being hired. It won't be perfect, but it will mean year round employment for the new hires who are willing to fly in Europe for the summer months with one of our TUi partner airlines.

These are not "aviation at its worst" jobs as stated by a previous poster. I can tell you first hand that each year passing I make more money than I have the year before and have much more after tax income than any job I have had in Canada. For this I am very happy. Not to mention too the life experience of living and experiencing Europe for coming up my sixth summer. It's been an amazing job and I have no regrets ever coming here.

The reality of the Sunwing business model is that Sunwing requires much more lift capacity in the four winter months of the year, namely Dec, Jan, Feb and Mar as opposed to the rest of the year. I do not like the wet leasing of foreign aircraft but then who am I to say when I operate a Canadian wet leased aircraft employed by Sunwing in Europe every May, Jun, July, Aug, Sept and Oct? I just do not want to see more wet leased airplanes here next winter than what we have this summer. Namely four aircraft. This is just my thoughts..

Foriegn pilots will always be part of the Sunwing business model in one form or another. This has been a big part of the companies financial sucess. What I see happening is the company recognizing that they have to change the Balance. They are taking action. This encourages me to believe that we will see the changes that we pilots at Sunwing want to see.

Time will tell.

Excellent job trying to justify the unjustifiable. Get back to us when Sunwing's model is challenged by yet another newcomer that manages to further cut down prices by using some other loopholes and that your improved conditions are now getting you closer to unemployment...

[whipline]

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle skylounger? I don't agree with what's going on so much so I wrote my MP against my own company. The argument coming from AT is a bit rich for me though.

[.......]

The argument coming from AT is a bit rich for me though.

Really? Which argument would that be?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle skylounger? I don't agree with what's going on so much so I wrote my MP against my own company. The argument coming from AT is a bit rich for me though.

I wrote to my MP also, but not "against" SunWing but rather against the Government of Canada policies that allow what SunWing and Canjet are doing. My opposition to these policies is in every one's interest, including Canadian SunWing pilots.
I work for Air Transat. If tomorrow, Transat decided to get rid of all of its aircraft and Wet-Lease aircraft from overseas instead, as far as I was able to gather, it would be perfectly legal. What prevents this so far (other than the fact that Wet-Leasing is normally more expensive than operating its own aircraft), is not a Canadian law, but some clauses in our Collective Agreement which our Union was able to insert specifically because the Canadian Laws and Regulation did not provide us with such a protection.

Air Transat could also put ads in the paper, looking for full time pilots that were already checked on the A-330 and A-310, and had several hundred hours on type. When no such pilots would apply within Canada, they could then produce this evidence to Services Canada, who would provide Air Transat with an LMO, that would allow Air Transat to go overseas to contract Foreign Pilots to come and Fly our aircraft. Then CIC, on recommendation from Service Canada, would wash its hands and provide these Foreign Pilots with work permits. Then Transport Canada would provide these Foreign pilots with Canadian Foreign Licence Validations, and with a Restricted Area Pass to go with it, in record time.

What is preventing all this from being possible at the present time? Not Government Regs or Policies, but our Union.

So what our goal is, is not to close the loopholes specifically for SunWing and CanJet, but to close them any Canadian carrier that would want to continue calling itself "Canadian" while at the same time Wet-Leasing foreign aircraft or Dry-Leasing foreign aircraft with Foreign crews at the controls.