Judging height.

[Cat Driver]

I am just sitting here killing time and thought I would ask a question.

How do pilots judge their height above the runway during the last phase of a landing if they are looking at the far end of the runway?

Especially if the runway is a mile long or longer.

[Krimson]

For me it is just when that usual feeling of "I'm getting close" mixed with a bit of peripherals. Takes some getting used to I guess.
In the beginning I probably would have slammed a few on if it wasn't for the instructor

[Cat Driver]

Where does the instructor tell you to look?

[Magnetron]

I know the length of the runway, I know my angle of descent and slope of the runway, if there is any. I can count in the background how far along the runway past the threshold I've gone. Using a quick arithmetic and some trigonometry. I use that to judge my height

Or when I'm feeling adventurous and inaccurate, I just use the reference when parked or taxiing on the ramp height and how it looked and felt....and kinda just feel it!

[Cat Driver]

Somehow there must be a more certain way to accurately judge your height above the runway than just a vague " feeling " of how high you are.

[KK7]

Somehow there must be a more certain way to accurately judge your height above the runway than just a vague " feeling " of how high you are.

Yes, it's called experience.

[sanjet]

I wait till the top of the PFD starts flashing "FLARE"

[Beefitarian]

Where does the instructor tell you to look?

iPhone?

[algore]

When my EGPWS starts counting down "50,40,30,20,10..."

[Cat Driver]

I guess I should just resign myself to not expecting to much here on this forum.

I thought there may be someone out there who could explain to me how they judge their height above the runway by looking a mile ahead of where they are.

Maybe my ability to judge height is different from a lot of other pilots, because I sure can not accurately judge my height if I look that far ahead.

What works best for me is to look at the point ahead where apparent movement ceases, or about five hundred feet ahead of the airplane. Speed will change the point where apparent movement ceases....for me at least.

[Lurch]

The Force.

Sorry Cat you gave in to early and gave the answer away.

Lurch

[Cat Driver]

Hows things going lurch?

Maybe I'm getting senile but it seems there was a lot better communication here on Avcanada back when it first started.

Where did all the older guys go?

[cgzro]

Maybe my ability to judge height is different from a lot of other pilots, because I sure can not accurately judge my height if I look that far ahead.

Looking down the runway is helpful with direction, bank, yaw, attitude, obstacles etc. but its not very precise for height so as you get close to the threshold glance a bit down and to the side, then back to the nose and repeat. If you don't do this then what happens is you will eventually figure out what height you are relative to a particular runway width (assuming you are on the centerline), but when faced with a different width or you get blown off the centerline you will flair too high or low and have to learn a new sight picture while if you look out the side periodically you'll see how high you are based on visual queues like the grass, runway lights, perspective to the horizon laterally etc.

[Rowdy Burns]

Counting it down for the student helps too - starting at 50' or so.

[Cat Driver]

O.K. If the runway width changes the abiity to judge your height how do you maintain say two feet down a big flat field when you are spraying a field in an ag plane?

[C-GKNT]

Cat,

Guess I never really thought about it until you asked the question.

Personally, I look at both ends of the runway. Not at the same time of course, but either I use my peripheral vision or take quick "peeks" at the threshold while primarily looking further ahead.

Glenn

[Northern Flyer]

I don't really look at the far end of the runway. I guess I have a good idea of the wheel to eye hight of the aircraft I am flying and decend to that level and hold the aircraft off until I have the perfect touchdown additude and set her down. Today I was working a fire in a CL415. On the scoop I decend over the water, wait for the 90 kt call the ass end drops a bit, add a touch of power and she settles down into the water a little nose up to keep the nose gear doors out of the water. Again you don't look a mile down the lake, I watch a point maybe 100 feet in front of the nose

[flyincanuck]

Great topic.

Thanks Cat.

[Northern Flyer]

Great topic.

Thanks Cat.

I definately find judging height the most difficult when flying ski's landing on a lake in flat light conditions. I'll try and get down along a shoreline and use pirifial vision to get near the surface then a glassy water type approach for the last bit

[Cat Driver]

Yes, this is a very important topic for the simple reason that knowing where your airplane is at all times is what makes one a better pilot.

Next to not being taught attitudes and movements properly the ability to accurately judge height above the landing surface is probably the mot prevelent problem that I observed over the decades I taught advanced flight training.

Properly explained and properly taught by attention to detail it is quite easy to make even the sloppiest pilot very good at judging height above the runway or any other surface.....except of course glassy water and whiteout conditions on snow.

When flying using only energy conservation and no reliance on power the ability to accurately judge height will make landings easy......I can not recall ever flying any airplane that could not be landed using only energy conservation. And over the last half century I have flown a lot of different airplanes.

[vstrom]

I don't really look at the far end of the runway. I guess I have a good idea of the wheel to eye hight of the aircraft I am flying and decend to that level and hold the aircraft off until I have the perfect touchdown additude and set her down

Didn't YTH fss have something to say about your eye to wheel height?

[AirFrame]

As a corollary, how does your method for determining height change if you're landing uphill, or downhill... Say for example at Cache Creek BC (CAZ5).

I'm not sure it's any one thing that I use to determine altitude on landing. I could say it's the "sight picture" that looks right at touchdown, but that's kind of vague. My angle of attack looks right, the position of the dash relative to the horizon, how much or how little my butt is sucking on my seat cushion, etc. It all factors in. I don't think I could have told anyone how high over the numbers I was when I landed at Cache Creek today. If I had to guess, i'd say about 5', because I think I still came down about that much more before I touched, but I was landing uphill.

[Cat Driver]

Determining if the landing surface is up hill or downhill is a factor that one arrives at by looking at the landing area before committing to the landing if there is no chart for the runway.

One of the trickiest places we used to land the DC3 was on a gravel road at an oil drilling site in the Yukon, we had to touch down on a up hill slope then turn to the left at the top and then go down hill and then sharp up hill to the parking area.......and take off in the opposite direction as there was a one way in and one way out due to the terrain. By the way there were trees on each side so staying in the center was critical.

[Northern Flyer]

I don't really look at the far end of the runway. I guess I have a good idea of the wheel to eye hight of the aircraft I am flying and decend to that level and hold the aircraft off until I have the perfect touchdown additude and set her down

Didn't YTH fss have something to say about your eye to wheel height?

I think your referring to a day that was plagued with phantom gusts and wind shear.

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

http://www.jacobsonflare.com/