The TRACE Beaver is flying.

[flyingsafely]

The first flight of the TRACE powered DHC-2 took place in Midland Texas today.
http://www.sealandaviation.com/blog-ent ... ver-flying

The engine is a certified 600 HP V8 that has been installed in Air Tractors. It was originally called the Thunder Engine, then the Orenda. This is the new and improved version manufactured by TRACE Engines in Teaxs.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Sounds good... But she looks ugly and slightly short of breath at the pointy end...

[flyingsafely]

It needs a paint scheme.
Here's a link to a promo video taken a few weeks ago:
http://youtu.be/Sx81g-ZV3yw

[Lost Lake]

Porbably the most expensive engine ever re-designed. If you only knew how many millions of dollars went into that White elephant!

[1000 HP]

I wonder what the TBO is supposed to be? Wouldn't those look good on the Beech 18? Anybody have a weight comparison to the R985?

[flyingsafely]

Presently the TBO is 1500 hours, and, based on trend monitoring with the EDM 930, it will be eligible for TBO extensions.
The installed weight is about 150 lbs heavier than an R985. A Beaver with a TRACE engine will be eligible for a gross weight increase to 6000 pounds.

I agree, they would look good on a Beech 18!

[twotter]

At 400K, I don't see too many people lining up to get it put on their Beaver.

[flyingsafely]

At 10,000 feet at cruise we are getting a true airspeed of 190+ mph.
It performs like a Turbo-Beaver.
The install Price will be $325,000 USD including the EDM 950. And the customer gets to keep the old firewall forward which is worth $25,000 to $75,000.

We're excited.

[Rowdy]

Is a good 985 that hard to find or get overhauled? Wouldn't a PT-6 upgrade be better spent money?

Plenty of good 985s out there! Same with PT6s!

Personally I think that price is well beyond what any operator would spend and only some strange private owners might consider it. Plus it looks tragic in my opinion.

Good on you for going outside the norm and experimenting though. I hope it works out

[J31]

Good idea but it still burns 100LL and the supply of that fuel is under pressure to be eliminated. Not to mention 100LL is hard to find in more remote places. I think it needs to be able to run on auto gas to be successful.

[Rowdy]

The beav with a 985 will run on 80/87 and Mogas..


*edited - damn you autocorrect

[flyingsafely]

Good idea but it still burns 100LL and the supply of that fuel is under pressure to be eliminated. Not to mention 100LL is hard to find in more remote places. I think it needs to be able to run on auto gas to be successful.

TRACE has a project underway to get approval for electronic ignition and injection systems. When these approvals are in place the engine can be run on Mogas. They should have the approvals by the end of this year. The electronic injection and ignition can be retrofitted onto the existing engines.

[Hornblower]

This sounds like a pretty cool mod, if it works.

What has been done to reslove some of the reliability issues that existed with the engine when it was the Thunder/Orenda? I understand there were head warping issues, along with ignition system issues. One or both of the Orenda test aircraft have been converted to turbine because of the reliability issues ... or so I've heard. I would be concerened about trying to get 600 HP reliably out of less than 600 cubes. That is nearly drag racing pwer/cube territory. Will they really last - what is the highest time Trace running, and what kind of maintenance issues did it have getting there? If everything worked as promised, this would blow the doors off a turbine conversion, and be cheaper lb/mile than the 985.
I would be really interested to see one go in a 500 to 600 hr per season commercial operation ... watch the reliability and dispatch rate.

[Tanker299]

What's the overhaul going to cost? And what will be involved in it? New engine, sleeves?

[twotter]

Flyingsafely, we got quoted $400K to be a launch customer for the install.. This of course was ridiculous and in my humble opinion you will have a really hard time finding people even at the $350K price point. That equals 10 overhauls on a 985... So, even for a real fanatic, they probably won't do it because they can not justify it and don't want to turn a great machine into something it's not. Let the Beaver (one of Canada's 10 greatest engineering accomplishments) stay the way it should be.. The Trace engine will turn the Beaver into something it was not designed to be. IMHO..

[Lost Lake]

Hey Twotter.....+1

[Adam Oke]

I cringe every time I heard that gear chatter, the thing sounds like it is about to fall apart at idle!

From what I gather it is a good engine, but there are a lot of troubles with the accessories. Having said that...for the price, why wouldn't you go with a Walter or Pratt??

[Lost Lake]

Please, please Trace. Would you PUULEASE give me the honor of forking over the discounted price of $400k to be a guinea pig on an engine that has had nothing but failures for the last 15 years. And especially on the most tried and true airplane ever made, eith one of the most reliasble engines built.

How did they ever come up with a TBO of 1,500 hr on an untried and proven engine?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Yet another example of the triumph of hope over experience.

You see this in aviation all the time. Somebody who is convinced that after decades of failure....."this time it will be a success"

[flyingsafely]

Lost Lake, what failures?

[Lost Lake]

15 years of R&D failure!

[GUMPS]

Can someone tell me what the cost to have the 985 changed over to a PT6 is?
Personally I think the beaver should only have a Pratt on her. How many -2 are still flying using the PZL engine? I know of one, and it's continuously up for sale....

[flyingsafely]

This sounds like a pretty cool mod, if it works.
What has been done to reslove some of the reliability issues that existed with the engine when it was the Thunder/Orenda? I understand there were head warping issues, along with ignition system issues. One or both of the Orenda test aircraft have been converted to turbine because of the reliability issues ... or so I've heard. I would be concerened about trying to get 600 HP reliably out of less than 600 cubes. That is nearly drag racing pwer/cube territory. Will they really last - what is the highest time Trace running, and what kind of maintenance issues did it have getting there? If everything worked as promised, this would blow the doors off a turbine conversion, and be cheaper lb/mile than the 985.
I would be really interested to see one go in a 500 to 600 hr per season commercial operation ... watch the reliability and dispatch rate.

Hornblower, Thanks for asking good questions! I asked the top guy at TRACE, David Czarnecki, to comment. He says:

"Most of the Orenda issues were simply from parts not built exactly to specifications. The design was not the primary issue but the execution of the manufacturing. This was the case with the majority of the components that had service bulletins issued. When the parts were manufactured to spec, tested and flown, the reliability is there.

Many people have no idea how many iterations of design many of the components went through between the Thunder Engine to Orenda and then ultimately to TRACE. At the time Orenda finally achieved type certification the design was solid. TRACE has continued to improve designs to try to extend the TBO and develop and certify a 750 horsepower model of the engine that is the same cubic inches as the current 600 horsepower model. Millions of dollars have been spent on engineering over the years to solve this technical aspect. At the end of the day, the TRACE engine is a refined evolution of both the Thunder and the Orenda engine programs in which the pedigree is good but the teething issues resolved.

As for the two of three aircraft that were converted back to turbines, they were all Otters. The primary reason for that was once Orenda shut the company down in 2003 the customer could no longer get spare parts to maintain the aircraft so they were effectively grounded. The only way to use the aircraft was to change powerplants. On the positive side, the third Otter had its Orenda engine overhauled and brought up to the latest TRACE specifications and will enter service this summer.

That is nearly drag racing pwer/cube territory

As for 600hp from 495 cubic inches, you have to get out of thinking air cooled and compare to liquid cooled for horsepower per cubic inch. Air cooled has been roughly 1hp per 2cubic inches. Almost any production high performance automobile is pushing 1hp per cubic inch. Those aren't close to drag racing numbers. Plus the details for the TRACE are 600 horsepower for 5 minutes, then 500 horsepower for max continuous. The TRACE is also turbocharged so you get the power steady up to 20,000ft.


TRACE has accumulated about 1200 hours max on one aircraft; the longest aircraft being in service is an Air Tractor operating 200 to 250 hours a year. TRACE's goal in the last two years has been to aggressively go after high hour operators in the Ag market to build our reputation and hours flown. TRACE went from having 2 aircraft flying to 7 this year, with more deposits on the books for our Ag STCs. We are hoping to get Beaver operators who run 400 to 600 hours a year to use our product. We believe they will be impressed and prove the product for us. This is a working man's engine and needs to be reliable. It will be more cost effective (more profitable for the operator) than a turbine installation.


Beyond the Beaver, TRACE is preparing to develop another platform to STC: a Cessna Caravan for freight application. TRACE already has the 208B in their hanger in Midland and has begun the design of the conversion kit. TRACE has a high volume freight carrier who will rent the aircraft and compare it to their turbine fleet for dispatch rate and reliability. This conversion kit will utilize our 750 horsepower model engine which is being certified concurrently."

[ragbagflyer]

Does the TRACE engine have a reversible prop?

[rigpiggy]

lets see, the caravan is underpowered already, and you want to add another 500#ish to the weight, good luck