Any chance for a job for a Belgian pilot ?

[digits_]

Hello all,

last year I made quite a big trip (see posts in viewtopic.php?f=25&t=75176) through your beautiful country and fell in love with "The North". I returned home expecting the feeling would go away. It's been almost a year now, and guess what, it didn't. If you combine this with the fact that there are (almost) no jobs whatsoever in Europe, I started looking into working in Canada as an immigrant (since I am/live in Belgium, with Belgian JAR pilot licenses etc). Turns out the biggest hurdle before I can even start my job is to get a working permit. I also learned that the working permit could be offered/taken care of by the company that finally hires you. And of course, every law has its exceptions and/or loopholes (although 'loopholes' sounds a bit negatively).

So here goes: is there any way I might get a paying flying job in Canada (preferably the North, but not necessarily) ? I found some similar topic, but they were a few years old, and situations and laws change of course.

I don't expect any positive answers, but one never knows !

Greetings,
Digits

[North Shore]

I think that your best bet would be to see if you could get a work permit doing something else other than flying (do you have any other marketable skills?) and then, once you've got one, hunt for a flying job. I'm sure that there are a few people on here who'd consider giving you a job, based on your trip...

Good Luck!

[digits_]

I am an elektrotechnical (electronics) engineer without experience. I currently am a self employed website developer. Any idea if that would that help ? I thought the work permits were branche specific: eg if I manage to get in the country as a business man/self employed, I wouldn't be allowed to work for a boss. Or am I wrong about this ?

[Sky_Conqueror]

Enough with foreign pilots! I don't give a damn of what people may say after I post this! Its hard enough for us Canadian pilots to get a break in the industry with all the competition there is out there! All we need is an additional group of individuals that will harden the process. Its already being done with low-cost leisure carriers that operate to sun destinations in winter. There is protectionism everywhere and it should be considerably implemented here. There is alot of ''pilot protectionism'' in Europe, Asia and especially South America under the form of specific agency licenses, positions only open to local candidates etc. I'm goddam tired!

[JMACK]

I am an elektrotechnical (electronics) engineer without experience. I currently am a self employed website developer. Any idea if that would that help ? I thought the work permits were branche specific: eg if I manage to get in the country as a business man/self employed, I wouldn't be allowed to work for a boss. Or am I wrong about this ?

Check out the jobs at CAE Canadian Aerospace Electronics and Bombardier Aerospace. Both companies hire people from all over the world and being Belgian I bet there is a good chance you know a bit of French.

If you can get in as an engineer..........then when you get permanent status you can do anything.

Good luck D!

Cheers........Jim

[culver10]

If you are a P-Eng, here are all sorts of jobs for them in the Alberta Oil Sands. Pay in Oil Sands is WAYYYYY better than any entry level flying job and you could afford to fly for fun.

[esp803]

Having the desire to go fly as an expat myself somewhere, I can see where you are coming from. With an amzing trip like that under your belt I'm sure you have a fighting chance here. Good luck!

E

[notpaying]

Enough with foreign pilots! I don't give a damn of what people may say after I post this! Its hard enough for us Canadian pilots to get a break in the industry with all the competition there is out there! All we need is an additional group of individuals that will harden the process. Its already being done with low-cost leisure carriers that operate to sun destinations in winter. There is protectionism everywhere and it should be considerably implemented here. There is alot of ''pilot protectionism'' in Europe, Asia and especially South America under the form of specific agency licenses, positions only open to local candidates etc. I'm goddam tired!

Sincerely, I'm sorry that you wrote such a harsh response. For every unqualified immigrant entering the country, Canada's immigration policy let in 10 unqualified immigrants. This man is educated and seems like he could bring a reasonable and beneficial contribution to us as Canadians. The man's objectives aren't to just come to Canada, make money and go away. He's into longterm and that suits me just fine.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Enough with foreign pilots! I don't give a damn of what people may say after I post this! Its hard enough for us Canadian pilots to get a break in the industry with all the competition there is out there! All we need is an additional group of individuals that will harden the process. Its already being done with low-cost leisure carriers that operate to sun destinations in winter. There is protectionism everywhere and it should be considerably implemented here. There is alot of ''pilot protectionism'' in Europe, Asia and especially South America under the form of specific agency licenses, positions only open to local candidates etc. I'm goddam tired!

Perhaps you should fault the system in place and not the qualified person whom may be an asset to a company who would hire that individual.
I have flown in the Middle East and in South America, never was I made to feel unwelcome by my peers. I highly doubt you've worked in any of those continents. Had you, I can assure you that you would not be making assinine comments as the ones quoted above.

The bottom line is that IF a candidate is qualified and has the legal right to work here at the same pay scale as their "born and raised" Canadian counterpart the field should be open for a fair game.
Perhaps the day will come when you get a call from a foreign airline with an employment offer... It might just change your views...

Regards,
TPC

Digits_ : Viens-tu de la bonne tribu?

[digits_]

If you can get in as an engineer..........then when you get permanent status you can do anything.

How long does it usually take (in practice) to get permanent status ?
Is it common in Canada to change jobs after a few months/years ? I wouldn't feel comfortable lying to a company, and I think they wouldn't hire me if I told them honestly that 'I'll be out of here if I get a flying job'.

Thanks for the advice!

[digits_]

Digits_ : Viens-tu de la bonne tribu?

Est-ce que tu veux savoir si je suis francophone ? Je regrette de t'informer que ça n'est pas le cas. Je peux bien me débrouiller en français, mais je suis née dans la belle Flandre.

Un gros bisou pour chaque erreur que tu peux trouver dans ce message !

[Eric Janson]

Enough with foreign pilots! I don't give a damn of what people may say after I post this! Its hard enough for us Canadian pilots to get a break in the industry with all the competition there is out there! All we need is an additional group of individuals that will harden the process. Its already being done with low-cost leisure carriers that operate to sun destinations in winter. There is protectionism everywhere and it should be considerably implemented here. There is alot of ''pilot protectionism'' in Europe, Asia and especially South America under the form of specific agency licenses, positions only open to local candidates etc. I'm goddam tired!

There are plenty of Canadians flying all over the World. Probably far more than the number of foreign Pilots flying in Canada.

What would you prefer?

All of us remaining overseas
or
All of us back in Canada competing against you for a job.


I have worked in both a European and an Asian country. I have always felt welcome and have never encountered any issues regarding my nationality.

[traveller1982]

Enough with foreign pilots! I don't give a damn of what people may say after I post this! Its hard enough for us Canadian pilots to get a break in the industry with all the competition there is out there! All we need is an additional group of individuals that will harden the process. Its already being done with low-cost leisure carriers that operate to sun destinations in winter. There is protectionism everywhere and it should be considerably implemented here. There is alot of ''pilot protectionism'' in Europe, Asia and especially South America under the form of specific agency licenses, positions only open to local candidates etc. I'm goddam tired!

I am a foreign pilot working for a Canadian company. I am guessing with that chip on your shoulder you would find it hard to get a job even without lots of competition. Besides wake up aviation is a global industry. I have worked on 5 continents now and have always enjoyed working with different people from different places.

digits, if you are under the age of 30 then Canada has a working holiday program that you may be eligible for it is not a permanent visa but may give you a chance to come work in Canada and try it out. Good luck

[Canadian Skyhawk]

digits,

Have you tried the traditional appproach of applying for landed immigrant status to Canada? Every year, Canada takes in about 300,000 immigrants (about 1% of our population) and if you already speak English AND French, and are a professional - as you have demonstrated - you should easily make it. The only downside is that it is a time consuming process which could deag on for a year or more. On the upside, once you have been accepted, you can move to anywhere in Canada you desire and apply for any job you desire - aviation or otherwise. And three years later, you can apply for full citizenship. We make it easy in Canada! : ))

Good luck!

[digits_]

Hi Skyhaw,

I haven't found any information about the landed immigrant status yet. I did find some information about the skilled worker program, but an elektrotechnical engineer is not part of the (quite short) list. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll look into it !

Regards,
digits

[bmc]

Digits....as a Canadian living in Europe, I wish you every success in your endeavours. Canada is a great country with a lot a great, fun open and welcoming people.

If you do succeed, could you teach us how to make real beer?

[Wacko]

I think that your best bet would be to see if you could get a work permit doing something else other than flying (do you have any other marketable skills?) and then, once you've got one, hunt for a flying job. I'm sure that there are a few people on here who'd consider giving you a job, based on your trip...

Good Luck!

Funny... on the one hand everyone is pissed that Canada is getting F@cked in the ass by people exploiting loop holes. This could be anything from immigrating to Canada to outsourcing jobs abroad (post comes to mind with AC wanting to use US pilots to fly US/Canada flights).. yet here we are.. there's 6 people GUIDING someone to go around the system.

This is not intended for digits_. I just find it funny that we (Canadians) are our worst enemy.

With regards to digits_... my 2 cents would be, with 250+ CV's from Canadian pilots, (once you get all your licenses in order) how many of the operators up North will be willing to jump through hoops to get you a work visa extension? I personally couldn't comment.. just throwing it out there.. if I were an employer, why bother?

[scopiton]

there's 6 people GUIDING someone to go around the system.

This is not intended for digits_. I just find it funny that we (Canadians) are our worst enemy.

where was it described how to go around the system ?
everybody is giving ideas to this European poster to achieve his/her dream legally by becoming a landed immigrant. how is that going around the system ?
read again.
slowly.
you can even put your finger below each word if you want, and you can even open a dictionary.
there is no time limit.

your worst enemy is ignorance, not other Canadians pilots and legal immigrants.

[RenegadeAV8R]

Enough with foreign pilots! I don't give a damn of what people may say after I post this! Its hard enough for us Canadian pilots to get a break in the industry with all the competition there is out there! All we need is an additional group of individuals that will harden the process. Its already being done with low-cost leisure carriers that operate to sun destinations in winter. There is protectionism everywhere and it should be considerably implemented here. There is alot of ''pilot protectionism'' in Europe, Asia and especially South America under the form of specific agency licenses, positions only open to local candidates etc. I'm goddam tired!

I totally agree with you. The supply of pilots in Canada already exceed the demand.

[Colonel Sanders]

Xenophobia is not attractive, and frankly is a bit bizarre coming from people who willingly travel to (foreign) places for a living

[TeePeeCreeper]

I totally agree with you. The supply of pilots in Canada already exceed the demand.

That may be the case for entry level jobs... However, there is a shortage of qualified pilots for operators who need experienced crews...

The sad truth is that some guys and gals who are just getting started are getting frustrated and having a hard time finding their first or second job in the industry. The only reason it's "sad" is because they are trying to justify the lack of suitable employment at their level on foreign pilots.
Qualified foreign pilots with expirience and the ability to find work here legally are not the cause for your lack of luck finding your first job...

Regards,
TPC

[RenegadeAV8R]

I totally agree with you. The supply of pilots in Canada already exceed the demand.

That may be the case for entry level jobs... However, there is a shortage of qualified pilots for operators who need experienced crews...
...
Qualified foreign pilots with expirience and the ability to find work here legally are not the cause for your lack of luck finding your first job...

Regards,
TPC

Hi TeePeeCreeper,

I had my first job a long while ago - I am way passed that level. The fact remains that there is already more pilots in Canada then jobs.

Operators "need" experience? Guess what; this is true in all activities, not just in aviation. Canada is large and diversified enough to be able let its own pilots gain the experience required to move up the aviation ladder; without having to hire foreigners.

Best regards,

[Wacko]

there's 6 people GUIDING someone to go around the system.

This is not intended for digits_. I just find it funny that we (Canadians) are our worst enemy.

where was it described how to go around the system ?
everybody is giving ideas to this European poster to achieve his/her dream legally by becoming a landed immigrant. how is that going around the system ?
read again.
slowly.
you can even put your finger below each word if you want, and you can even open a dictionary.
there is no time limit.

your worst enemy is ignorance, not other Canadians pilots and legal immigrants.

How is it not? People are suggesting he comes here on false pretenses. Canada (assuming he would get immigration) is allowing him to come to this country on the assumption that he satisfies a NEED in the country. (Engineering in this case). If he's applying to come here KNOWING that he will not be in that industry he's a liar and a cheat... there's a difference if you come here as an Engineer, try to find a job and can't (for whatever reason) and then find something in a different field.

[Krimson]

How is it not? People are suggesting he comes here on false pretenses. Canada (assuming he would get immigration) is allowing him to come to this country on the assumption that he satisfies a NEED in the country. (Engineering in this case). If he's applying to come here KNOWING that he will not be in that industry he's a liar and a cheat... there's a difference if you come here as an Engineer, try to find a job and can't (for whatever reason) and then find something in a different field.

Harsh words...good thing you would never dream of going expat anywhere outside of Canada, that would just be lying and cheating
There are a lot of very qualified candidates that can come into Canada and work, just as there are a lot of unqualified pilots in Canada who are working. I would rather fly with someone who knows what he is doing, not someone who is there just because he was the last Canadian pilot without a job. Am I worried that my job will be taken by a foreigner? No. I am not the guy slipping by doing the bare minimums to call himself a pilot at the bars. Would I mind if my job was lost to a foreigner? It would have the same effect on me as if my job was lost to another Canadian.
What it seems to be is a few pilots don't want the extra competition. Maybe you can put a positive spin on it. If you really don't want foreign pilots to enter Canada, step up your game and don't give any reason to be replaced/not hired. Don't just sit around complaining that someone else has your job, do something about it. For these self-intitled, if it was not about foreign pilots, it would be something else. There's always an excuse or someone to blame it on.

Now the real problem is hiring people (anyone, foreign/canadian) just to get a cheaper pilot. That is when we all suffer and safety is truly jeopardized as we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. You cannot sit and blame every foreigner for that though.

One of the reasons I became a pilot was to travel the world and fly everywhere I could. Its a shame how some people are so rude to someone not from around here, and hopefully the rest of the world is not so closed minded.

[Wacko]

My post isn't direct for digits_ or aviation for that matter. My point is that entering a country under false pretenses is not right. If you have to lie or say you're going to do one thing, in order to do another... I would consider that cheating the system... wouldn't you?

AND... just as an aside... here's food for thought.

The rules in Canada changed for foreign students to work on a part time basis while studying here. They are now only allowed to work "on campus".

In regards to Aviation, this would basically be front desk etc at the flight school. Now... unlike a Canadian who can work anywhere, these students are tied to the flight school. In turn, the flight schools know this and offer low pay and long hours because they can. The alternative is for those students to work under the table for cash, which the honest ones are not willing to risk.

Now, a couple things happen here.
#1. The flight school benefits because they are paying a lower wage for an enthusiastic foreigner.
#2. The foreigner benefits because s/he has spending cash while studying abroad.
#3. The Canadian public benefits because this loophole allows the employer to drive down salaries (minimum wage) therefore eventually inflation

I could name at least 2 schools in Southern Alberta who are or did operate like this. (I won't). The truth is, they are not braking any laws...