Who can give you a float rating?

BlueStar · Post by **BlueStar** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:31 pm

Hello all,

I have a question regarding getting a float rating. I have some people I know that own a float plane.
My question is who can sign off my float rating? Does it have to be TC? Or the person owning the plane after the necessary time of training?

Thanks

Bushav8er · Post by **Bushav8er** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:10 pm

CAR 425.21 (6)

A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of a landplane class rating or a seaplane class rating shall:

(a) be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence; and

(b) have experience of not less than 50 hours flight time on the class of aeroplane used for the training.

[and have a float rating of course] Get in touch with your local TC office and tell them who is conducting the training and download (or get) form 26-0194 (0801-03) APPLICATION FOR FLIGHT CREW PERMITS / LICENCES.

I_Heart_Seaplanes · Post by **I_Heart_Seaplanes** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:48 am

As Bushav8ter pointed out, any CPL with a float rating and 50hrs on type can do your training and sign the rating form. BUT be careful, you dont actually have the privileges until you get your new sticker from TC. Not usually a problem when training is done through a school because they probably have an AP to sign your license right away. If you need your rating right away, you can try and find an AP in the area and pay them to sign it for you.

GUMPS · Post by **GUMPS** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:27 am

Also get your buddy to check with his insurance company about doing 5 solo take off and landings. Might be a show stopper I'm not sure

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:00 am

who can sign off my float rating?

Any Authorized Person at any FTU can do it. I did it for years, for free.

Whether or not they will or not, is another question.

Hell, if you're in eastern ontario, give me a holler.

BlueStar · Post by **BlueStar** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:19 am

Thanks for the help!!!

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:36 pm

Hi Blue Star,

Here is the form you and your training pilot must fill in three copies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/wwwdocs/Forms/26-00 ... 2-03_E.pdf

As said above, you have to do 5 takeoffs & landings solo. Can be sketchy insurance wise.

Best of luck and enjoy!

Gilles

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:17 pm

PS You don't need to send in multiple copies any more. TC
has gone high tech - they scan in everything they get in the
mail.

spafloats · Post by **spafloats** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:32 pm

Make very certain that you do 5 SOLO take-offs and landings and that this is entered into the aircraft Journey Log as such. No "Supervised " solo.

You must be the sole occupant of the aircraft and you must be insured for the solo flight or the rating isn`t legal and so is the flight. Ratings have been voided and hours have been rolled back in the past by T.C. for not following the rules.

Spafloats

Lost Lake · Post by **Lost Lake** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:16 pm

Pretty much says it all

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:23 pm

Indeed!

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:53 pm

you must be insured for the solo flight or the rating isn't legal

Ok, but it's not the job of the Authorized Person to check the validity of the C of R, the C of A, the annual inspection, the AD's, the last compass swing, the last ELT check, etc, etc.

The Authorized Person is not a forensic scientist, nor is he a policeman. He simply ensures that the required experience has been obtained and is documented adequately. That's it.

spafloats · Post by **spafloats** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:36 pm

As an Authorized Person I won`t sign for a float rating unless I see the candidates Log Book, the Journey Log for the airplane, the insurance document with proof of coverage for the solo flight take-offs and landings, and if I don`t know the pilot who conducted the training, their logbook too!

If the stars aren`t in alignment, I won`t sign.

Spafloats

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:46 pm

why is everyone so hung up on the airplane having insurance, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REQUIREMENT for an airplane to have insurance all the pilot needs is liability insurance for themselves.

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:41 pm

there is ABSOLUTELY NO REQUIREMENT for an airplane to have insurance all the pilot needs is liability insurance for themselves

Wrong. TC doesn't care if the pilot has liability insurance.

CAR 606.02(8) applies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#606_02

(8) No aircraft owner not referred to in paragraph (2)(a), (b) or (c) shall operate an aircraft unless, in respect of every incident related to the operation of the aircraft, the owner has subscribed for liability insurance covering risks of public liability in an amount that is not less than

(a) $100,000, where the maximum permissible take-off weight of the aircraft is 1 043 kg (2,300 pounds) or less;

(b) $500,000, where the maximum permissible take-off weight of the aircraft is greater than 1 043 kg (2,300 pounds) but not greater than 2 268 kg (5,000 pounds);

(c) $1,000,000, where the maximum permissible take-off weight of the aircraft is greater than 2 268 kg (5,000 pounds) but not greater than 5 670 kg (12,500 pounds);

Note that 606.02(8) does not refer to either the "aircraft" or the "pilot" having insurance. Rather, it refers to the "aircraft owner ... subscribed for liability insurance".

Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with the Authorized Person. If the flights in the journey log match the flights in the pilot's log, his job is done.

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:15 pm

If someone owns a plane and wants you to give them a float rating all they need is liability, also I'm curious as to the meaning of the term owner subscribing to the insurance as I would believe that if someone wanted to use your airplane if they have liability it would suffice as the owner of the aircraft would then have liability coverage through the user. A call to TC would be able to clear it all up

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:12 am

I would believe that if someone wanted to use your airplane if they have liability it would suffice

Wrong again. Go back and re-read CAR 606.02(8). You seem to think that compliance with that CAR is optional. It is not. I have had this discussion several different times with TC and they simply don't care if you have liability insurance or not. TC only cares that you are in compliance with the CARs. To comply with CAR 606.02(8) you need an insurance policy with the aircraft owner's name on it, I have been told more than once by different TC inspectors.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with what an Authorized Person does. All he has to do is make sure that the hours in the aircraft journey log correspond to the hours in the pilot's personal logbook. The AP, for example, does not have to check the Airworthiness Directives or Out of Phase Maintenance required by CAR STD 625 App C.

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:12 pm

ok can you not get liability and add the owner onto it, then your done and safe.

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:32 pm

Colonel Sanders wrote:Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with the Authorized Person. If the flights in the journey log match the flights in the pilot's log, his job is done.

What's this authorized person thing you're going on about here? Do you have to be an instructor to be one? Probably not. Did you make this stuff up or what?

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:11 pm

That "False Solo" entry is common practice but is illegal because it constitutes a falsified document.

Any airworthy seaplane can be used, with a qualified training pilot. Seaplane owers can make their aircraft "available" for the purpose. But...most of them certainly don't carry an insurance coverage for any low-time pilot with only six hours dual on floats. Hence the common practice of writing a fake solo flight.

It is not the role of the agent to conduct an investigation as if the entries are real or bullshit. They are written and signed by the training pilot; that's his responsibility, he puts his license number on it. It's a legal document, period.

In my area, there is a flying school operating a C-172 amphib, with fulll coverage for the trainees; they can act as the sole occupant of the aircraft. They fly solo for real when ready, and that's what is required. The candidate must be able to takeoff and land five times by himself, come back all in one piece, then fill the form and get the stamp.

How do you think that FTU feels about these private owners taking some of his business away? He might be tempted to report them to TC, in order to invalidate the rating. If I was him, I'd certainly do it.

RB

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:54 pm

A flight test by an independent flight test examiner would be the logical way to go......the five solo take offs and landings are just another stupid requirement some drone in a T.C. cubicle thought up.

Big Pistons Forever · Post by **Big Pistons Forever** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:08 pm

Cat Driver wrote:A flight test by an independent flight test examiner would be the logical way to go......the five solo take offs and landings are just another stupid requirement some drone in a T.C. cubicle thought up.

Absolutely. In the US you have to do a ride with an examiner to get the seaplane rating. We should have the same system in Canada.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:46 pm

spafloats wrote: you must be insured for the solo flight or the rating isn`t legal and so is the flight. Ratings have been voided and hours have been rolled back in the past by T.C. for not following the rules.

Spafloats

Well, if you don't meet the requirments for the rating, the rating could be cancelled, but insurance is not a requirement for the rating, so there would be no grounds to cancel the rating for that reason ... for not having done the five sole occupant take-offs and landings; yes. In theory you could be charged for a breach of the 606 regs, but the insurance rules don't apply to the pilot; only the owner/operator ... but we've been down that road in another thread.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:55 pm

Cat Driver wrote:A flight test by an independent flight test examiner would be the logical way to go......the five solo take offs and landings are just another stupid requirement some drone in a T.C. cubicle thought up.

I so agree with that, but who would do the test??

I guess that the 5 take-offs and landings is actually a test, but without an examiner ... if you come back, you've passed the test.

I suppose that TC decided long ago that they don't have the type of personnel to do that kind of testing, or even to do the delegation of someone who could. TC only hires ATPL pilots that typically come from a different world. There are few TC inspectors left that come from the float world (except for those that did it for a season or two to build enough hrs to get out. So the end result is the test is carried out by trial and fire ... here you go my son, try to get back here in one piece and they'll give you the rating ... best of luck!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:07 pm

I so agree with that, but who would do the test??

Any T.C. inspector or any DFTE, same as for the multi engine ratings and IFR ratings......which incidentally do not require solo flights.

There are thousands of retired pilots who may be interested in being a DFTE for sea plane ratings.....if it were not for all the B.S. that T.C. would ask for.

Who can give you a float rating?

Who can give you a float rating?

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