Sunwing 2012-13

[patrickairlie]

Deleted

[CMD-A]

hey patrick,
why on earth would you copy-and-paste a company memo onto the public forum?
have you ever noticed a small print attached to all company puplications advising the recepient of the confidantiality of the company communications?
give your friggin' head a shake!

[Ender]

Good Afternoon,
This winter we will operate a fleet of 24 B737s. In addition to the 24 aircraft, we will be bringing in an
additional 5 aircraft on wet lease for a total of 29 planes. These 29 aircraft will be operated with our flight
attendants. We realize that the pilot group has expressed concerns about wet lease operations for Sunwing
Vacations, but keep in mind the Tour Operator’s needs are greater than the airline is capable of supplying at
this time.
We have upgraded approximately 34 First Officers which will provide Crew Scheduling 122 SWG Captains
this winter. Since the beginning of the year, we have hired an additional 15 permanent First Officers. We also
plan to hire 20 Canadian seasonal contract First Officers. As a result, we will have increased our peak
complement of Canadian pilots by almost 25%.
Our Planning Department has indicated that the winter 2012/13 bases will be;
 YVR
 YYC
 YYZ
 YOW
 YUL
 YQB
We expect to put out a bid for winter seasonal bases within the next few weeks. We are looking forward to
an exciting winter with expanded opportunities for our Canadian crews.

[oh yeah baby]

hey patrick,
why on earth would you copy-and-paste a company memo onto the public forum?
have you ever noticed a small print attached to all company puplications advising the recepient of the confidantiality of the company communications?
give your friggin' head a shake!

because it is disgusting... mister super CMD-A you should be ashame of yourself to let that happen. Patrick, I congratulate you for brigging that situation up and trying to fight this injustice for SUNWING and canadian pilot.

THIS AS TO STOP... THERE IS QUALIFIED PILOT IN CANADA

It is a disgrace for our profession

[Inverted2]

Good Afternoon,
This winter we will operate a fleet of 24 B737s. In addition to the 24 aircraft, we will be bringing in an
additional 5 aircraft on wet lease for a total of 29 planes. These 29 aircraft will be operated with our flight
attendants. We realize that the pilot group has expressed concerns about wet lease operations for Sunwing
Vacations, but keep in mind the Tour Operator’s needs are greater than the airline is capable of supplying at
this time.

They can't hire enough pilots for this winters flying? Thats kind of a lame excuse. 4 months wouldn't be enough time to hire Canadian pilots?

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Well said ea306,

"Oh Yeah baby" you need to be a little more educated on all the facts involved in how Sunwing operates, I totally agree that SWG should have equality in numbers. This is something that is being addressed I assure you... Thanks for your concern. One thing you have to understand is that we will always have European pilots fly for us in the Winter. As well, we will fly in Europe for the Summers. That's not changing, this is part of our success in the Airline portion of the business. A very Profitable Sunwing Vacations is certainly not because of a bunch Euro pilots in our winter operation, but a successful formula and strategy implemented by our Vacations division. Remember in our business the Airline doesn't make the Money, it's the Hotels. Anyways, I could go on and on but I won't bore you...

[jjj]

Can anyone elaborate what a "permanent First Officer" is in this case???

JJJ

[whipline]

Jx3 Sunwing wants to hire seasonal Canadian pilots for the winter season. They had a job add up for a few days and had 60 ish qualified applicants apply. Work the winters and take the summer off. Cheaper for Sunwing and gets rid of foreign non recip pilots.

[ea306]

JJJ

Permanent: As in permanent employment...not seasonal.

[oh yeah baby]

OPEC6 Heavy

I m as educated as an outsider can be. I think i have a fair knowledge on the subject and i just wish to be entertain on the dynamic of the upper management at Sunwing. For the record i agree on pretty much everything you have said. I do not have anything against 1:1 ration as the majority of Canadian pilot. I gives a year round job for Canadian pilot. Be true to yourself and dont hide behind the fact that lots of canadian pilot works for emirates. It is a different story and you know it.

Sunwing succes is mosltly explain by the money imput of TUI in 2010, the synergie and the scale economy on hotels down south and the economy generated by increasing the size of a young company. I will not say anything on the aircraft dumping in the canadian market of short range aircraft that were used to fly to tunesia, egypt and greece by TUI form Europe. On top of that, recession in Europe accentuated the problem and TUI found a LEGAL way to make those aircraft fly year round and hurt competition without loosing too much money.

I would not call the pilot issue legal. Sunwing use a strategy that is not made for this kind of worker. There is available canadian pilot on the market waiting for a call.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Despite the few upgrades and the temporary hires, which are a step in the right direction, Suwing still plans to hire over 200 foreign pilots to work in Canada next winter, in addition to the 80 or so foreign pilots that will be flying the Wet-Leased aircraft.

Sunwing is sending very few or no pilots to Europe on their so-called reciprocity agreement with European airlines so should not be allowed by Citizenship and Immigration Canada to import any foreign pilots based on an agreement they do not respect. Furthermore, this practise of requirering type-rated pilots in their ads to demonstrate a so-called shortage of pilots in Canada to HRSDC to obtain an LMO authorising them to hire foreigners is a scandalous scam which whose practice should no longer be tolerated by the government of Canada civil servants who administer this LMO program.

Sunwing should import to fly Canadian registered aircraft the same number of foreign pilots as Canadian pilots that they send overseas to fly FOREIGN REGISTERED aircraft. They should not be allowed to import ANY pilots using the LMOs. What they need to do it is to hire more full-time and part-time canadian pilots.

As for the Wet-Leases, I have personally written to the Canadian Transportation Agency which authorises such Wet-Leases to protest them and encourage all those who opose the principle to write to them also.
Wet-Lease of foreign aircraft are meant to be short term stop-gap emmergency leases, not log term commercial solutions. If they are ever allowed to become long term solutions it wont be long before we have Indian aircraft with Indian pilots and flight attendents flying canadian passengers on behalf of Canadian tour operators from Canada. They already have the call centers of major North American companies and it wont be long before cheap and qualified Indian flight crews man Indian Registered B-737 in Canada.
E

[Cough Syrup]

I think it's good you're writing the CTA...go after the government not the companies who simply jump through their sloppy loopholes.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Seems like it's the government's fault for having too many "loopholes"..is it really the fault of a company who simply jumps through them?

They are not loopholes. Its plain fraud.
They are supposed to import same number of pilots that they export. Last year they sent 12 canadian pilots to work in Europe and then imported close to 200 foreign pilots in "reciprocity". That's not a loophole it's a violation of CIC regulations and guidelines, rules that CIC civil servants have chosen not to enforce, or they decided to look the other way.

As for LMOs, Sunwing just demontrated that they can find qualified candidates that they can hire and train to fly the 737. How can the same company, later this year put a similar ad, but one requiring a 737 type rating and then use that as an excuse to demonstrate a shortage of canadian pilots and justify the hiring of 737 type rated foreigners?
And the HRSDC civil servants who are responsible for issuing the LMOs pretend that they are convinced that there is a real pilot shortage in Canada.

again its not a loophole, it's a scam.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Well said ea306,

" I totally agree that SWG should have equality in numbers. This is something that is being addressed I assure you... Thanks for your concern. One thing you have to understand is that we will always have European pilots fly for us in the Winter. As well, we will fly in Europe for the Summers.

OPEC6, since you agree that there should be equality in the numbers, you care to tell everyone on this Forum how many Sunwing pilots went to work for European carriers this summer?

Hint: NONE.

So if you agree with equality in the numbers, Sunwing should have an equal number of foreign pilots working for them next winter: NONE.

Sunwing did send some Canadian registered aircraft on Wet-Leases to Europe this summer which are flown by Sunwing pilots of course, on the Sunwing Certificate, but those don't count in the reciprical agreement since they are not working for a Foreign airline, are not flying foreign registered aircraft and require no overseas work permits to work. They have the same status as the Portuguese EuroAtlantic Airways B-767 crews that are now on Wet-Lease to Sunwing who although they are flying from Canada for Sunwing, are flying their own Portuguese registered aircraft and as such require no work permits from CIC, nor do they need Foreign Licence Validations from Transport Canada.

Here is Canadian Registered C-FYLC taking off from Palma on June 12, 2012, on Wet-Lease to Thomson.

[ea306]

Gillies: FYI.
- All Canadian Pilots are required to be issued a work visa from the EU Country they are based to operate a Wet Lease in the EU. All non EU passport holders have a work visa issued.


Our union has turned down the F Reg flying until acceptible working conditions can be agreed to. Company has said they will do a lot more hiring once the pilot group agrees to it. We shall see.

Gillies. I see improvements from within and time will tell if the positive trend will continue. Personally I am very excited to see the developments of this year and look forward to the coming winter season.

Meanwhile I am over in Europe flying European passengers for a European Airline in a wet leased B737-800 making some good coin. I wonder how many European pilots are crying fowl? Certainly not on AvCanada.

BTW,
Nice photo! I was in PMI on that day...probably me flying too...cool!

[Takeoff OK]

Our union has turned down the F Reg flying until acceptible working conditions can be agreed to. Company has said they will do a lot more hiring once the pilot group agrees to it. We shall see.

So you agree, then, that there is actually zero percent reciprocity occurring this summer to balance the foreign pilots of last winter. Correct?

This is a sham, and you know it. Scumwing's dumping on this market is undercutting the future of every one of us.

As far as "we shall see" goes, that can easily be assured by putting 100% reciprocity language into whatever LOU your union is currently working on. Why not? It's only what the law states. What possible argument can management ever use in a legally binding document to counter it?

Stand up for yourselves.

By the way, how many "F Reg" slots were actually offered to you guys before your union turned them down?

[ea306]

Plenty.
This is a contract year for us.
Posting internal memos or union communications on a public forum is a really stupid idea.
So like it or not:
"We shall see" is saying plenty.

There is good progress and it is encouraging to see. Time will tell in the year ahead if the progressive improvements will continue.

We shall see.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gillies: FYI.
- All Canadian Pilots are required to be issued a work visa from the EU Country they are based to operate a Wet Lease in the EU. All non EU passport holders have a work visa issued.


Our union has turned down the F Reg flying until acceptible working conditions can be agreed to. Company has said they will do a lot more hiring once the pilot group agrees to it. We shall see.

Gillies. I see improvements from within and time will tell if the positive trend will continue. Personally I am very excited to see the developments of this year and look forward to the coming winter season.

Meanwhile I am over in Europe flying European passengers for a European Airline in a wet leased B737-800 making some good coin. I wonder how many European pilots are crying fowl? Certainly not on AvCanada.

BTW,
Nice photo! I was in PMI on that day...probably me flying too...cool!

I don't know which Europe you guys do Wet-Leases in, but when Air Transat does Wet-Lease charters in Europe, our pilots do it without European visas and without European Licence Validations. Neither is required for when we do so, we remain employed by Air Transat, and we fly Canadian Registered Air Transat Aircraft, which is exactly what Sunwing pilots in Europe are doing now. If you guys were issued European work permits although they are not required by European authorities, I smell a fish.........

If the pilots you send in Europe to fly Canadian Registered Sunwing Aircraft were to count in the reciprocity agreements, then all European pilots who come to Canada to fly European registered Aircraft for Sunwing on Wet-Leases are to be counted also, like those Czech Travel Service pilots who were flying OK-TVT last winter, as well as the Portuguese EuroAtlantic Airways crews who flew those 2 B-767s for Sunwing last summer and who are at it again this summer.

Those pilots have no Canadian Work permits for they do no require one in Canada, and CIC knows nothing about them being in Canada for Sunwing. Yet Sunwing tries to tell CIC that the Canadian pilots such as yourself who are flying Sunwing 737s in Europe are there on reciprocity.

I think all this is clear and evident enough, for people on either side of this argument.

What I need to see from Sunwing is ZERO LMO pilots (the practice of requiring type-ratings from Canadians as a condition to hire them and then hiring type-rated foreigners instead), hiring more permanent and temporary Canadian pilots and EQUAL reciprocity in the hiring of foreigners.

Cheers,

Gilles

[whipline]

Gilles, yes we require work visas depending on the length of stay and the country we're in. How is that fishy? Secondly the pilot group does not want forced deployments on F Reg aircraft without proper terms and conditions. Wet leases are way better for our group. Our contract, our work rules, our dispatch, crew sched and Maint.

Now can you please direct me to your posts on air transat hiring foreign pilots through Canjet? What is ALPA transat/Canjet doing about it?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles, yes we require work visas depending on the length of stay and the country we're in. How is that fishy? Secondly the pilot group does not want forced deployments on F Reg aircraft without proper terms and conditions. Wet leases are way better for our group. Our contract, our work rules, our dispatch, crew sched and Maint.

Now can you please direct me to your posts on air transat hiring foreign pilots through Canjet? What is ALPA transat/Canjet doing about it?

Air Transat does not hire foreign pilots.
Transat AT, not Air Transat, is under contract with Canjet for Wet-Leases, like the had been in the past with WestJet. At least Canjet and Westjet are Canadian Companies, which we can credit Transat for.

Transat owns no shares in Canjet or vice-versa. The same way Transat had no say in how Westjet ran its company when the two companies were linked by contractual agreements, Transat has no say in how Canjet runs its company today. They are totally distinct, unlike the TUI-Sunwing-Thomson etc relationship.

This being said, last year Canjet hired 31 foreign pilots under LMOs. I am 100 per cent against the practice, want to see it stopped by all companies. I would prefer to see Canjet either hire temporary Canadian pilots for the winter season or enter into a reciprocal agreement with European carriers to import additional pilots in the winter, carriers that would hire an equal number of Canadian pilots in the summer.

I cannot speak on behalf of ALPA, but I do know that ALPA's President, who as the representative of Canjet's Canadian pilots, spoke against the practice of hiring foreign pilots in front on the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communication.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Commi ... 5issue.pdf

There is a trend among some Canadian air carriers to augment their flight crew contingent on a seasonal basis with foreign pilots. Foreign pilots have been hired at Sunwing, CanJet and what was
Skyservice. In some cases, the foreign pilots fly the carriers’ Canadian-registered aircraft; in others, the Canadian carrier uses both foreign aircraft and crew. Foreign workers require a permit to work in Canada. Employers wishing to engage foreign workers can assist them in obtaining this permit by making an application to HRSDC for a labour market opinion, or an LMO. The guidelines for the foreign
worker program stipulate that eligible foreign workers are allowed to work in Canada for an authorized period if the employer can demonstrate that they are unable to find suitable Canadians or permanent residents to fill the jobs and that the entry of the workers will not have a negative impact on the Canadian labour market. The employers in these cases stipulate that the pilots must be type-rated, which is different than having a licence, on a certain model of aircraft. Rather than hire non-rated pilots and train them, the carrier applies to have foreign pilots fill the positions on a seasonal members basis. We are of the opinion that there is not currently a shortage of pilots in Canada. Rather than utilizing the labour market opinion to fill genuine personnel shortages, the program is being used to create economic advantages as the carriers can eliminate training costs and hire a pilot only seasonally.

What that clear enough ?

[scopiton]

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I often feel that way to tell you the truth, but I am so certain that I am on the right side of things that in order to fail, I would have to be living a Kafka short story, not Cervantes' Don Quijote de la Mancha.

Cheers,

Gilles

[OPEC6-Heavy]

"Oh Yeah Baby",

Sunwing succes is mosltly explain by the money imput of TUI in 2010, the synergie and the scale economy on hotels down south and the economy generated by increasing the size of a young company. I will not say anything on the aircraft dumping in the canadian market of short range aircraft that were used to fly to tunesia, egypt and greece by TUI form Europe.

Sunwing was Profitable Since day 1, not just because of TUI (which merged only 3 years ago). I know it's private, so you can trust Profit 100 magazines list to confirm that. You are correct the synergies are extremely efficient because we have a lot in common and our peak seasons are counter cyclical, this makes good business sense. Please, you also need to stop using this term of "Dumping", there's no Dumping going on... We pay a lot of money for TUI aircraft and crews, in fact probably more than other companies we deal with. SWG isn't going to allocate aircraft to demand that does not exist, this is a tactic Air Canada has used in the past to eliminate competition mainly in the triangle. If you look at TUI's financial statement Q2 you will see that Sunwing cut them a cheque for $32 million CAD this winter, 49% of our profits. We are a "cash cow" for TUI not the other way around as people like to suggest.

"Takeoff OK"/"Gilles"

Gilles, you answered your own question. YES we did send pilots to Europe, as we have done for 6 years now.

So your saying that because SWG pilots are spending 6 months of there lives in Europe flying for the same companies that where flying for us last winter, that somehow this does not qualify as credit for reciprocity in any way??? (Yes it's not 1:1)
Because it's "C" reg instead of "F" reg??? Who cares what paper works such as Licenses and work permit are issued !! The whole point to create as much Canadian flying work as there is European work during our winter, now your adding ridiculous excuses like paper work. This clearly indicates you will not really be happy with any scenario, I think your just pissed off... "Scumwing" nice one. Guys I'm not on hear to argue (my wife gives me practice doing that) I'm just putting some facts into the discussion because it always seems one sided.

Gilles

Last year they sent 12 canadian pilots to work in Europe and then imported close to 200 foreign pilots in "reciprocity"

That is completely false, we sent a hell of a lot more pilots then that to Europe and had less than 200 Foreign pilots. You see statements like this are what motivate me onto this forum. And Gilles you lose creditability when you says things like this.

Well lets keep talking and get out the facts...

[ea306]

Sunwing Airlines have been moving in the right direction by hiring more pilots and upgrading a good many of our FOs to captain. 

The training department has been very busy. In fact we are short crews and I suspect the hiring will continue. 

Meanwhile, Sunwing Vacations is growing and needs more lift. The tour operator can use outside sources to provide lift for short periods of time just like any other airline or vacation company does worldwide...including Canada. Nothing can be done about that nor should be. 

Whether one likes Wet Leases or not, I have to remember that I also benefit from wet leases in that I am in Europe this summer flying a Sunwing aircraft which is wet leased to a European operator. 
Making excellent money too I will mention.

It is everyone's hope that this trend will continue and many more well paying jobs will be available to Canadian Pilots in the future.  The potential is massive and a well balanced cooperation should prove to be beneficial for both business as well as Canadian and European Pilots.

Pilots here in Europe could be bitching and saying that a great injustice is being done to them. They could be saying that the airlines here should be training European pilots to fly the routes we are flying here in Europe. (But then often European airlines here fill these temporary seasonal positions with contract pilots who buy their own type rating.... Type ratings that pilots have purchased without the promise of a job....just a hope of getting one... I digress a bit here thus the brackets..)

Why do airlines and tour operators wet lease? Because it makes good business sense.  That's the Bottom line.... 

5 wet lease B737 aircraft this winter equates to 6 crews per aircraft for four months which totals up to at least 60 pilots flying those wet leased aircraft. It is for a short period of time and then they are gone. Pretty much like it is for those of us flying wet lease here.

The suggestion that the company should not take the business because ONLY Canadian pilots should be doing this work is not reasonable. Sunwing has found a profitable business model and as long as it is profitable, it will be a stable source of employment.  This is not "dumping" as previously stated.

Things have changed for the better from last year. Is it perfect? No.  But we all hope for the trend to continue towards improvements.

The company wants to be able to send our pilots out to Europe to fly for other airlines also. This is a big issue for our union and is a point of negotiation. Acceptable working conditions and renumeration are the key.  Once proper working conditions can be agreed upon, perhaps you will see a lot more of us Canandians being hired at Sunwing and being sent to the TUi airlines in Europe for the summers.  It is also noteworthy that this year we did not have the manpower to meet the demand.  Once an appropriate agreement is in place, this will mean a lot more jobs year round and will put things more in balance between Canadians flying in Europe in the summer as when we see Europeans here in Canada in the winter.

The world is ever changing. Nothing stays the same. We either can learn to adapt and protect our interests and gain by it, or rebell. Choice is ours.  

[ea306]

For immediate release
BLUE DIAMOND RESORTS PURCHASES PUNTA CANA RESORT
Toronto, 6 July 2012
Blue Diamond Hotels & Resorts, a division of North America’s leading leisure travel company, Sunwing Travel Group, is proud to announce the purchase of the Grand Paradise Bavaro Beach Resort, Casino and Spa.
Ideally situated, directly on the world famous Bavaro Beach, and just a short half hour drive from Punta Cana International Airport, the resort features 1,029 guest rooms and suites. All guests are accommodated on an All Inclusive basis, with an impressive choice of six a la carte restaurants, two buffet restaurants and ten bars across the resort.
With immediate effect, the Blue Diamond team will take over the management of the resort, which will continue to operate as Grand Paradise Bavaro Beach Resort through to April 30th 2013. At this time, the resort will be closed for a six month period to allow for changes and improvements to bring it in line with Blue Diamond’s “Memories Resorts” specifications. The resort will re-open in November 2013 as the 5 star-rated Memories Punta Cana Beach Resort and Spa.
This acquisition is Blue Diamond’s second wholly owned and managed property, following the recent purchase of the ex-SuperClubs resort in Trelawny, Jamaica, currently undergoing a $40 million renovation before it reopens as “Memories White Sands Beach Resort & Spa” later this year.
“With the increase in demand for Punta Cana and the scarcity of available rooms, the destination was the obvious choice for our next expansion of the Hotel Division”, commented Stephen Hunter, President & CEO Sunwing Travel Group, “already a popular resort on a perfect wide expanse of white beach, we have ambitious plans to differentiate the resort under our Memories brand next year”.
About Blue Diamond:
Blue Diamond Hotels & Resorts, a division of Sunwing Travel Group, is an innovative hotel management company that specializes in creating differentiated brands to suit each market’s demands. It currently operates over 3,500 rooms in All Inclusive resorts in the Caribbean and Latin America under its “Memories Beach Resorts” and “Royalton Luxury Resorts” brands.