Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pilots

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Gilles Hudicourt
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Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pilots

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bx7NB2 ... mJ5RG5OYTQ

This is the first step in making up excuses to hire foreign pilots using the LMO method. A bogus advertisement in the papers and on Company Website, asking for type-rated B737NG pilots. When none will apply, they will use that as an excuse to request an LMO from HRSDC which will permit them to ask CIC for Canadian Work Permits for Foreigners.

If you feel you have the experience to fly as a B-737NG F/O at Canjet but do not have a current B-737NG type rating, I suggest you let the people at HRSDC know about it before they hand out LMOs allowing Canjet to hire a foreigner instead of yourself.

There is no shortage of qualified and experienced pilots in Canada!

I am categorically against the use of R203(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations to hire Foreign Nationals as temporary workers to work in Canada as pilots if the airlines, when advertising for pilots, require a Type-Rating as a pre-requisite. There is no shortage of qualified pilots in Canada and the ruses which some airlines use to obtain an LMO from HRSDC in order to secure work permits for foreign pilots is nothing short of dishonest.

Here are the relevant Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations clauses for this category of temporary foreign worker:
203. (1) On application under Division 2 for a work permit made by a foreign national other than a foreign national referred to in subparagraphs 200(1)(c)(i) to (ii.1), an officer shall determine, on the basis of an opinion provided by the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, if

(b) the employment of the foreign national is likely to have a neutral or positive effect on the labour market in Canada;

(3) An opinion provided by the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development with respect to the matters referred to in paragraph (1)(b) shall be based on the following factors:
• (a) whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to result in direct job creation or job retention for Canadian citizens or permanent residents;
• (b) whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to result in the creation or transfer of skills and knowledge for the benefit of Canadian citizens or permanent residents;
(c) whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to fill a labour shortage;
• (d) whether the wages offered to the foreign national are consistent with the prevailing wage rate for the occupation and whether the working conditions meet generally accepted Canadian standards;
• (e) whether the employer has made, or has agreed to make, reasonable efforts to hire or train Canadian citizens or permanent residents; and
• (f) whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to adversely affect the settlement of any labour dispute in progress or the employment of any person involved in the dispute.
What Sunwing and Canjet have been doing, is advertising for seasonal pilot positions from December to May, but instead of accepting applications from any experienced Canadian Airline pilot such as myself (I have 15,000 hours of flight with A-330, A-310 and B-757 type ratings), they advertise that they only accept applications from people who are already Type-rated on the Boeing 737NG. Since the people who are already Type-Rated on the B-737NG in Canada are already employed by other Airlines, no-one applies for the advertised positions. They use this as an excuse to request an LMO from HRSDC. There are qualified and experienced pilots in Canada who could easily be trained to fly the B-737NG, such as pilots who used to fly for Canada 3000 or Skyservice, who are now either un-employed, under-employed, or who had to go find work overseas and would like to come back to Canada. Instead of offering the positions to these people, we hand them out to Foreign Nationals who pay zero taxes in Canada and who send their paychecks to their families in Europe. There are also many pilots in Canada who have seasonal summer jobs, such as water-bomber pilots, who only fly in the summer. These pilots are experienced and easily could be Type-rated on the Boeing 737NG that they could fly for these airlines in the winter, and go back to their water-bombers in the summer, instead of being on UI in the winter, which is the case of many of them. Would it not make sense to give the job a Canadian pilot and get him off of UI, rather than give it to a foreign national?

There are several reasons that these airlines resort to foreign pilots rather than hire Canadians. One, they save money. A type-rating cost $20,000 to an airline. If you need to train 40 pilots at once because of rapid expansion, it costs $800,000, a hefty investment I agree, but one that all other airlines in Canada make. Those airlines that refuse to train Canadian pilots seek to gain an unfair commercial advantage over their competition, at the expense of Canadian workers. Training pilots is part of the cost of doing business in the airline industry and most airlines in Canada do business with Montreal-based CAE for simulator training, the largest aircraft simulator company in the world. The Foreign pilots train overseas with foreign companies. Air Canada, Westjet, Air Transat, Porter, Jazz, First Air, Air Inuit and all other major airlines in Canada mostly train their pilots in Canada at company expense. Sunwing and Canjet may save money by not hiring Canadians, but does Canada save money by allowing such a practice?

Does it make sense for the Canadian State to pay UI to furloughed pilots in the winter while another branch of the Canadian Government provides LMOs to certain airlines authorising them to import Foreign Labour in order to save them money? When Government of Canada agencies condone the hiring of foreign pilots instead of hiring Canadian pilots, indirectly, they use UI funds to help these airlines gain an unfair commercial advantage over other airlines that do not make use of Foreign Labour as pilots. It makes no sense at all.

There are 5 Aviation Colleges that receive Provincial funds to train Canadian pilots. In Québec, the Government of Québec trains about 40 pilots every year at the CQFA at a cost of about $120,000 per pilot, funded by the Quebec taxpayers. But then we give out hundred of pilots jobs to foreigners instead of giving them to Canadians. There are similar cases in other provinces that fund similar colleges. Although the fresh graduates from these colleges clearly do not have the experience to fly a B-737 for an airline, the jobs that more experienced pilots will vacate to go fly for Sunwing and Canjet will become available to them in a trickledown effect. So it is their jobs that HRSDC is giving away to foreigners.

Several airlines in Canada are in dire financial straits right now and may even have to lay off pilots. How is it going to look to Canadian taxpayers, when dozens or even hundreds of highly experienced and qualified Canadian pilots end up on UI next winter while CIC and HRSDC team-up to provide work permits to over 300 European pilots for Sunwing and Canjet? Air Transat operates Airbus 310s and 330s, no Boeing 737s. Air Canada operates a number of aircraft but no Boeing 737s. Jazz does not have any either. So none of Air Transat's, Air Canada's or Jazz's 5,000+ pilots are Type-Rated to fly the Boeing 737NG. Are Sunwing and Canjet going to tell those pilots on UI that they are not qualified and hire foreigners instead?

CIC’s and HRSDC’s regulations and guidelines state that the hiring of foreign nationals must have a positive or neutral labour impact, and that the employer must have made reasonable efforts to hire or train Canadians or permanent residents. It’s quite obvious to any reasonable person that this practice does not have a neutral labour impact in Canada since highly qualified Canadians are denied an employment opportunity in favor of foreign nationals, and it is also quite obvious to any reasonable person that the employers did NOT make reasonable and honest efforts to hire OR TRAIN Canadians or Canadian Residents for these positions before hiring foreign nationals instead. The Type-Rating that these airlines require as precondition for these positions are nothing but excuses made up by these companies to justify the hiring of foreign nationals for the reasons of saving the training expense and in the case of Sunwing, for favoring the hiring of foreign national pilots from its mother-company, TUI.

In the name of the 2,500 Canadian Airline pilots who signed our petition, I respectfully ask that HRSDC cease to provide LMO's to those airlines who use the lack of a Type-Rating as an excuse to hire foreigners instead of Canadians.


If anyone here agrees with the above and would like to protest, here are the contacts:


Human Resources and Skills Development Canada
Temporary Foreign Worker Program
126 Cromarty Dr,
Dartmouth crossing
P.O. Box 1350
Dartmouth, NS
B2Y 4B9
Phone
(902)-426-2344
(902)-426-3193 (Service bilingue)
Fax (902)-426-4096

I suggest you also contact your MP about it
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:25 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Cloud 9 »

Well said Gilles. Keep fighting the good fight
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

I haven't seen it yet but someone informs me that there is another CanJet add for seasonal pilots in today’s G+M Section B page 16
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Diadem »

Everyone with a current 737NG type rating should apply, even if they're happily employed and have no intention of accepting the job. It would be much harder for Canjet and Sunwing to sell to the government that there are no qualified pilots with a stack of resumes on their desks.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

And here is the ad where they hire the foreigners:

http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/140134 ... r-2012-13/
B737NG - First Officers Canada Winter 2012-13
Recruiter PAS Aviation Associates GmbH Posted 09 July 2012 Ref Canada First Officers Contact Mark Wilson Location Canada Sector Flight Crew - First Officer, Flight Crew - Senior First Officer Contract Type Contract Hours Full Time Salary TBN
Apply now
Further information
More B737NG Pilots wanted! Canada, this next winter!

On behalf of our established client, PAS Aviation is looking for Boeing 737 NG First Officers for a contract in Canada during Winter, November 2012 till end April 2013.

Please note that this is not a commuting contract, therefore applicants must be able to spend the 6 months entirely in Canada, although accommodation and car will be provided.

Non negotiable requirements for interested applicants to meet: -

Minimum 3500 hours total time
At least 200+ hours on the B737 NG (hours on classic do not count)
All applicants must hold a valid JAA ATPL, IR, Medical, current Type Rating for the B737 NG.
All MUST have a validity for the duration of the contract period.-
Must hold or be able to acquire a US crew visa -
Maximum age 60 years.
We will accept Captains willing to take a First Officer position for the experience of flying in Canada, as we have many that do!
Please apply via email ONLY by forwarding a current CV, with a full breakdown of hours and experience, including the date of your last flight on the B737 NG, to: mark@pas-aviation.aero. Due to the high level of applicants, Only Candidates meeting the requirements mentioned above, will receive a reply.
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by green bastard »

Great post. Its time to write your MP. This PC government wont last forever. This issue needs to be lobbied to politicians as an election promise for the next federal election.
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by 2R »

There used to be a requirement to advertise any jobs in a national paper before the government would issue a visa for a foreign worker.Hence the silly ads for etnic cooks and nannies in some papers .
The government has made labour mobility a condition of receiving any EI.It might be difficult for a pilot in Yellowknife or other parts of Canada to apply for a job if it is not advertised in Canada.It might be impossible for a Canadian pilot to apply for a job if the company is using a foreign hiring agency.
Would a pilot on the Ei ski team lose benefits if he did not apply for a job he did not know was being advertised ?
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Cough Syrup
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Cough Syrup »

I would officially complain to the government as well but I might be hiring a live-in nanny from overseas in the next year and I don't want to be a hypocrite.
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Zip Tie »

I found this=>>>

Its probably either SunWing or Canjet looking for Foreign pilots

http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/834.html
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Gino Under
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Gino Under »

So, if Canjet won't pay for your type rating to save the training cost, how much is 6 months worth of accomodation and a rental car they're providing for these European contractors?

Gino Under :partyman:
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yycflyguy
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by yycflyguy »

Cough Syrup wrote:I would officially complain to the government as well but I might be hiring a live-in nanny from overseas in the next year and I don't want to be a hypocrite.
How many years training does the Nanny have?
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Cough Syrup »

Between ESL and childcare training, etc....prob about as much as I do.
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by yycflyguy »

Cough Syrup wrote:Between ESL and childcare training, etc....prob about as much as I do.
So your pilot training is on par with daycare training and obtaining English as a second language? Interesting. Congratulations on your vigourous academic and professional training career.
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Veereference
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Veereference »

Jesus f*cking christ!

Non negotiable requirements for interested applicants to meet: -
Minimum 3500 hours total time
At least 200+ hours on the B737 NG (hours on classic do not count)
All applicants must hold a valid JAA ATPL, IR, Medical, current Type Rating for the B737 NG.
All MUST have a validity for the duration of the contract period.-
Must hold or be able to acquire a US crew visa -
Maximum age 60 years.
We will accept Captains willing to take a First Officer position for the experience of flying in Canada, as we have many that do!

So let me get this rate, someone flying for Westjet on the 737NG does not qualify because one of the requirements is you hold a JAA ATPL. What a load of shit. I just lost it. Jobs in Canada have NO Canadians that are qualified.

I think someone should sue someone here. The fact none of First Air's pilots, Westjet, Air Canada, Air Transat or Canadian North pilots qualify is full of shit. This is not right. It's even worse than I thought. How can they get away with this legally?

Before anyone tells me I should email my MPs and the correct MP who are responsible for certain positions I have.
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Cough Syrup
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Cough Syrup »

yycflyguy wrote:
Cough Syrup wrote:Between ESL and childcare training, etc....prob about as much as I do.
So your pilot training is on par with daycare training and obtaining English as a second language? Interesting. Congratulations on your vigourous academic and professional training career.

(Pssst...you're a pilot but you're not as cool as you think)

I did my training in a summer, and have never been asked if I have a highschool diploma - wouldn't matter if I did or not ..and my nanny has to have one!


Again, I would be a hypocrite if I complained about this original issue and hired an overseas nanny. Disagree all you want...
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Cat Driver »


So your pilot training is on par with daycare training and obtaining English as a second language? Interesting. Congratulations on your vigourous academic and professional training career.
Actually the academic requirements to become a pilot are the ability to read and write and pass a medical......just look at the mentality of some of the pilots who are working in the flying industry.
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by Takeoff OK »

Veereference wrote:Jesus f*cking christ!

Non negotiable requirements for interested applicants to meet: -
Minimum 3500 hours total time
At least 200+ hours on the B737 NG (hours on classic do not count)
All applicants must hold a valid JAA ATPL, IR, Medical, current Type Rating for the B737 NG.
All MUST have a validity for the duration of the contract period.-
Must hold or be able to acquire a US crew visa -
Maximum age 60 years.
We will accept Captains willing to take a First Officer position for the experience of flying in Canada, as we have many that do!

So let me get this rate, someone flying for Westjet on the 737NG does not qualify because one of the requirements is you hold a JAA ATPL. What a load of shit. I just lost it. Jobs in Canada have NO Canadians that are qualified.

I think someone should sue someone here. The fact none of First Air's pilots, Westjet, Air Canada, Air Transat or Canadian North pilots qualify is full of shit. This is not right. It's even worse than I thought. How can they get away with this legally?

Before anyone tells me I should email my MPs and the correct MP who are responsible for certain positions I have.
That job posting is from an overseas head-hunting agent. Their requirements are directed at foreigners. There was a similar add I believe, without the JAA requirement, over here. Anyone apply? I agree with you, though, Veeref. I'm starting to think along the lines of class-action lawsuit...
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by buzzjob »

Veereference wrote:Jesus f*cking christ!

Non negotiable requirements for interested applicants to meet: -
Minimum 3500 hours total time
At least 200+ hours on the B737 NG (hours on classic do not count)
All applicants must hold a valid JAA ATPL, IR, Medical, current Type Rating for the B737 NG.
All MUST have a validity for the duration of the contract period.-
Must hold or be able to acquire a US crew visa -
Maximum age 60 years.
We will accept Captains willing to take a First Officer position for the experience of flying in Canada, as we have many that do!

So let me get this rate, someone flying for Westjet on the 737NG does not qualify because one of the requirements is you hold a JAA ATPL. What a load of shit. I just lost it. Jobs in Canada have NO Canadians that are qualified.

I think someone should sue someone here. The fact none of First Air's pilots, Westjet, Air Canada, Air Transat or Canadian North pilots qualify is full of shit. This is not right. It's even worse than I thought. How can they get away with this legally?

Before anyone tells me I should email my MPs and the correct MP who are responsible for certain positions I have.

This ad is geared toward non TC rated pilots. If you are TC rated and meet the requirements apply to Canjet or Sunwing directly...you will have a very good chance of being hired permanent rather than a contract position
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yycflyguy
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Re: Foreign pilots: Canjet getting ready to hire foreign pil

Post by yycflyguy »

Cat Driver wrote:

So your pilot training is on par with daycare training and obtaining English as a second language? Interesting. Congratulations on your vigourous academic and professional training career.
Actually the academic requirements to become a pilot are the ability to read and write and pass a medical......just look at the mentality of some of the pilots who are working in the flying industry.
You too can be a Nanny, kitty kat.
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