Assigning A Runway by FSS.

[Doc]

Okay, this is a dumb question. The answer is: They can't.

Why can't an FSS unit "assign" an active runway? Usually, it's not an issue, but it would sure make things more efficient at YXL. Sioux Lookout. Pilots are a very self serving group. They'll use the most "convenient" runway for "them" with no regard for what "works" for traffic flow, or others. If YXL FSS could assign a runway in use, it'd save a really big pain in the ass factor. We may never get a tower there, although one is surely needed, but lets at least help out the FSS guys and use the "active" runway??

[BEFAN5]

100% agree Doc.

FSS generally serve the busier, but not busy enough airports. They still all have their time of day when things get packed. I can't understand what people think when they decide to land on runway 27 when everyone else is lined up to takeoff on 09. It's not all about you.

[kevenv]

I was under the impression that arrivals and departures had to conform to the existing traffic? If they aren't, shouldn't it be addressed?

I have heard units down east using the term "preferred runway"...

[BEFAN5]

From my understanding (from what I hear as a pilot), FSS will use the term "preferred runway" when a runway is in-active but preferred due to wind etc. "Active Runway" is used when there is aircraft using said runway.

In the ideal world, everyone would conform to existing traffic. I think it is just one of those things that goes unmentioned for so long that it is hard to start enforcing. Poor FSS guys would be going through a pad of reports per day!

[lilfssister]

From my understanding (from what I hear as a pilot), FSS will use the term "preferred runway" when a runway is in-active but preferred due to wind etc. "Active Runway" is used when there is aircraft using said runway.

Correct.

We have three "prefixes" to an airport advisory
Active (SHALL be used when another pilot has indicated their intention to use that runway for landing or takeoff)
Preferred (Most aligned with the wind, noise abatement, NOTAM (closures, unserviceable approach aids, etc), weather, work in progress, RSC, etc)
Roger Runway ## (The runway you advised us that you intend to use is the preferred runway)

[lilfssister]

I was under the impression that arrivals and departures had to conform to the existing traffic? If they aren't, shouldn't it be addressed?

CARS says "conform to or avoid", so as long as your use of a runway other than the active does not cause other traffic to have to do something to get out of your way, or if it is coordinated in advance with the other traffic and they agree to extend a downwind or do a 360, it's legal.

[126.7_STFU]

Doc,


Have you ever taken a runway which was most convenient for you?

[Doc]

Doc,


Have you ever taken a runway which was most convenient for you?

I have. BUT And you can feel free to confirm this with the FSS unit, (usually YXL, because it's sometimes quite busy) or the chaps I fly with. I ALWAYS state my intended runway with "if this works out with your traffic....." or words to that effect. But, IF there is traffic using a specific runway, I will always use that runway. Also, when landing on 34 at YXL, I will ALWAYS clear at the end. I can make the intersection, just like everybody else....but WTF should I? Letting an aircraft roll out to the end dissipates energy with less wear on the brakes etc.

If there's no traffic, the question becomes moot. If you're the only inbound, and nobody's sparked up to leave, we all land wherever it's most convenient. To do otherwise would be just silly.

[Doc]

From my understanding (from what I hear as a pilot), FSS will use the term "preferred runway" when a runway is in-active but preferred due to wind etc. "Active Runway" is used when there is aircraft using said runway.

Correct.

We have three "prefixes" to an airport advisory
Active (SHALL be used when another pilot has indicated their intention to use that runway for landing or takeoff)
Preferred (Most aligned with the wind, noise abatement, NOTAM (closures, unserviceable approach aids, etc), weather, work in progress, RSC, etc)
Roger Runway ## (The runway you advised us that you intend to use is the preferred runway)

I don't think anybody takes your definition of "Active" too seriously. The "SHALL be used", is pretty much ignored....all the time? If there is a legal requirement to "use" the "active" runway, it's never enforced, or even encouraged by any FSS units I've flown into?
I'd almost like to see (during times of a high number of movements, at least) "Runway XX is active, and you WILL use it...."

[crazy horse]

I think she means the fss SHALL use the phrase "Active Runway", not that the pilot shall use active runway.

[Doc]

I think she means the fss SHALL use the phrase "Active Runway", not that the pilot shall use active runway.

I suspect you are correct.

[Krimson]

I think she meant that it shall be used by the other traffic. Therefore that runway shall be in use shortly/recently. Does not mean you have to.

[lilfssister]

I meant FSS shall use the phrase " ACTIVE RUNWAY ##" when the conditions above exist

[W0XOF]

Just to add further to the term "Active Runway ##" by FSS. All active runways will be stated "Active Runway 09 and 27" for example.

I have had to state 5 active runways in one advisory before. Now that's ridiculous. All company machines racing each other in. One phone call to the chief pilot changed that.

[Doc]

Just to add further to the term "Active Runway ##" by FSS. All active runways will be stated "Active Runway 09 and 27" for example.

I have had to state 5 active runways in one advisory before. Now that's ridiculous. All company machines racing each other in. One phone call to the chief pilot changed that.

A perfect example of why I think you guys (FSS) should be allowed to assign a certain runway as the runway "to use".
WOXOF, you seem to be in agreement with this? Better solution than phoning chief pilots, no?

[lilfssister]

I often have 2 or 3 active, and it works well. As long as everyone is aware of what is going on. Have had 4 active (I can't compete with WOXOF as I only HAVE 4 )

[Doc]

WOXOF's example gave me a chuckle. Instead of calling the CP on them, I'd have put my feet up and had a good laugh over it. Obviously it was all fun and games....BTW, why didn't he have 6 active?

[W0XOF]

I no longer have the potential for 6, just 4. Routinely have 2 now, also works great for the commercial guys and us as they won't use the opposing end if there is a chance of conflict.

I certainly had a chuckle after but not during. Difficult to monitor 5 circuits, some of which, the reciprocals are on the same side. Plus, being the triangle configuration, active runways had to be used for taxiways. Not mention, of the 8 inbounds only 3 different aircraft types and 2 different paint jobs with no radar, so it was difficult to match up the callsigns with which one was which in the sequence and keep the traffic straight.

Assigning runways would definitely make for safer operations for obvious and not so obvious reasons. I believe it would also increase capacity that FSS could handle. In a similar way that radar, ATIS, discrete clearance delivery frequencies and pre taxi clearances have. Much easier to monitor one end of the runway.

However, this has been discussed at various advisory committees for as long as I can remember. Not holding my breath, but changes initiated by the users seem to get the greatest attention.

Hey, there was a time when "there is no place for radar in FSS" also. Always hope.