AIR TRANSAT FALL LAYOFF here we are...

[look on your back]

350 FA s + an other +\- 200 !!!
Pilots: 16 +/- 34 = 50 pilots losing their jobs before christmas...

So to all of you, friendly pilots, friends, families, airline employees....don't forget to salute those SUNWING people, say thanks....after your travel with them because for about 20 bucks less on your travel ticket, you gonna get the unforgettable souvenir of beeing flown by german and british flight crew. THANK YOU... DANKE SHEUN !!!!

MANY THANKS to the Harper Government.....

[tbaylx]

Not arguing that Sunwing isn't contributing to the situation, however Transat is notorious for laying off pilots on a seasonal basis then calling them back. They've been doing this for years.

Best of luck to all those affected, hope it's short lived and recalls are quick. All of us in this industry are always in danger of bankruptcy's and layoffs, could be any one of us next week.

[chopsticks]

Sunwing is hiring seasonal Canadian pilots this winter on top of the Europeans they are bringing in. It's a step in the right direction.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Let me take this opportunity to tell all Canada Immigration and HRSDC Civil Servants that if ANY Work Permits are given to foreigners this winter, they will have the pleasure of reading about themselves in the press for we are going to raise HELL .........

Sunwing sent just a handfull of pilots to fly foreign registered aircraft last summer (2011) and ZERO this summer (2012), so I don't see how any foreigners could come to work in Canada under any sort or reciprocity deal. RECIPROCITY is a SCAM.

As for LMOs don't anyone try and claim that there is a shortage of skilled pilots in Canada. There are tons of skilled people, all Sunwing and Canjet have to do is hire them and train them.......

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Not arguing that Sunwing isn't contributing to the situation, however Transat is notorious for laying off pilots on a seasonal basis then calling them back. They've been doing this for years.

Air Transat did not do any pilot seasonal layoffs from 2005 to 2011. Then last winter it started again......just before we had our worst winter financial results in the company's history. Why ? Because a little competitor with just 6 or 7 full time B-737s and less than 150 pilots suddenly grew to 24 aircraft from December to May, using 18 European aircraft and and about 200 European pilots..........

That same company aims to operate 29 aircraft this coming winter, using the same methods........

[DeltaHotel]

Sad news.
Especially when one considers that seats sold and revenues at TS have been steadily increasing for a long time.
Seems to me that reducing capacity will only have for effect to send those passengers to the competition!

Hope the union succeeds in reducing that number a bit.
Good luck to all

[monkey]

Since were on this topic of sunwing, did anyone who did interviews last month for the contract jobs accept a position or have intentions of it? PM me if you want.

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Transat folks, you guys need to stop blaming everyone else for your Companies lack of fiscal creativity to remain profitable. Please tell me you see it's a much bigger problem than some European pilots coming to Canada for 4 months... I get the point about the principles and foreign pilots. Put that aside for 2 seconds and really ask yourself how your decision makers(CEO and President) are doing. Take a long hard look at the old school tactics of the whole TS Travel company (the profitable portion of TS) not just the airline, 1.5 years into a return to profit plan. Have you really seen changes in the organization or is it the same old thing still?? Maybe you should direct some of that energy toward your own Management and stop blaming others.
And for the record it really is Sad news that pilots are getting layoff notices even if it's for 3-4 months. I've been there myself and it's not good.

[sanjet]

Transat folks, you guys need to stop blaming everyone else for your Companies lack of fiscal creativity to remain profitable. Please tell me you see it's a much bigger problem than some European pilots coming to Canada for 4 months... I get the point about the principles and foreign pilots. Put that aside for 2 seconds and really ask yourself how your decision makers(CEO and President) are doing. Take a long hard look at the old school tactics of the whole TS Travel company (the profitable portion of TS) not just the airline, 1.5 years into a return to profit plan. Have you really seen changes in the organization or is it the same old thing still?? Maybe you should direct some of that energy toward your own Management and stop blaming others.
And for the record it really is Sad news that pilots are getting layoff notices even if it's for 3-4 months. I've been there myself and it's not good.

I dont think anyone is that naive Opec. The issue is that great companies like transat that properly employ pilots and others must suffer because of other companies that choose to bend the rules for the bottom dollar. As they say: Nice people always end up last.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Transat folks, you guys need to stop blaming everyone else for your Companies lack of fiscal creativity to remain profitable. Please tell me you see it's a much bigger problem than some European pilots coming to Canada for 4 months... I get the point about the principles and foreign pilots. Put that aside for 2 seconds and really ask yourself how your decision makers(CEO and President) are doing. Take a long hard look at the old school tactics of the whole TS Travel company (the profitable portion of TS) not just the airline, 1.5 years into a return to profit plan. Have you really seen changes in the organization or is it the same old thing still?? Maybe you should direct some of that energy toward your own Management and stop blaming others.
And for the record it really is Sad news that pilots are getting layoff notices even if it's for 3-4 months. I've been there myself and it's not good.

This summer, Air Transat operated a fleet of 23 wide-bodied aircraft between Canada and Europe, and did pretty well. The aircraft were fully utilized, the seats were mostly full and the prices allowed a profitable operation. But if our company can no longer find any use for these 23 wide bodied aircraft in the winter, we either downsize, or fold.
When we do, which company will take up the slack in the summer ? Europeans, perhaps. The other day, when I landed, there was 1 Air France A-380 and two Air France 777s on the ramp in YUL at the same time. If not European airlines, Sunwing might take up the slack, which amounts to the same thing as a European airline doing so. Because Sunwing wont do it with its 737s. They can't fly to Europe. Sunwing won't add wide-bodied aircraft to its fleet, for they will have no use for them in the winter, when their large fleet of TEMPORARY 737s from Europe will cater to their every need. So what will Sunwing do, to cash in on this new found Trans-Atlantic cash opportunity? What will it's wise CEOs recommend to maximize profit for the shareholders and investors? They will stick to their actual game plan: code share with European airlines, using strictly European Aircraft and crews, Wet-Lease European Aircraft again with European crews and possibly, just to look good, sign a couple short term leases (6 months) for a couple TUI-owned wide bodies on which they will install a few Canadian pilots and cabin crew, that they will puncture from their core of 737 crews......... This will minimize employee overhead, training costs, social benefits etc and maximize profit for the shareholders. Brilliant! Just brilliant! I bow to the genius of these people.

Why didn't Air Transat think of such a thing ? Because Air Transat was created by a group of Quebecair pilots who had been shafted by their previous CEO, a person whose concept of aviation profitability was more in line with that of Sunwing or Air Canada CEOs today........
Our present CEO is one of the founding members of Air Transat who would never tolerate that anyone ever compared him or his management style to Michel Leblanc's......

[DeltaHotel]

+1 Gilles

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Well said Gilles...

So what will Sunwing do, to cash in on this new found Trans-Atlantic cash opportunity? What will it's wise CEOs recommend to maximize profit for the shareholders and investors? They will stick to their actual game plan: code share with European airlines, using strictly European Aircraft and crews, Wet-Lease European Aircraft again with European crews and possibly, just to look good, sign a couple short term leases (6 months) for a couple TUI-owned wide bodies on which they will install a few Canadian pilots and cabin crew

I really don't think Trans-Atlantic is a cash opportunity now. Maybe in a few years but certainly not now.
I guess SWG took a page from your play book, how many years where Thomas Cook flying Trans-Atlantic on behalf of TS? All European crews, pilots and Aircraft. I flew many times on a TS purchased ticket, to show up and see it was a Thomas Cook 757. And just to stay on topic of this thread Lay-offs, why was is it that Sunwing was the first target of finger pointing. TS is laying-off pilots and Canjet(TS) is being payed to do flights on behalf of TS during the same lay-off period with Foreign pilots???? Is that not the ultimate example of your CEO's making money for your shareholders on the backs of TS pilots. Don't think your Manager's and CEO's are any different than anyone else.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I guess SWG took a page from your play book, how many years where Thomas Cook flying Trans-Atlantic on behalf of TS? All European crews, pilots and Aircraft. I flew many times on a TS purchased ticket, to show up and see it was a Thomas Cook 757. And just to stay on topic of this thread Lay-offs, why was is it that Sunwing was the first target of finger pointing. TS is laying-off pilots and Canjet(TS) is being payed to do flights on behalf of TS during the same lay-off period with Foreign pilots???? Is that not the ultimate example of your CEO's making money for your shareholders on the backs of TS pilots. Don't think your Manager's and CEO's are any different than anyone else.

True, very true, and I hated it. They really did this from 2007 to 2010.


But it was a Code Sharing agreement. During that whole period, Air Transat also operated its own aircraft between the UK and Canada......and hired new full time year-round pilots during every one of those four years......... every subsequent year after that until this spring.

Unlike the Sunwing-Corsairfly "Code-Sharing" agreement, for example, where every single flight is done by a foreign aircraft and NONE are done by Canadian aircraft and pilots. Just a teeny-weeny difference........

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Nothing to say about Canjet?? Ok.

Now if you want to open that can of worms... Code-share and Alliances, we could have a whole other discussion. Air Canada's Star Alliance, I bet it's enemy #1 for lost Canadian flying Jobs. How many Canadian flying jobs have gone because of this?? Look up an article written by a United Airlines MEC member from early 2000's, United lost half of there wide body fleet since then because of Star Alliance and foreign carriers picking up the flying. This is not a new tactic.

[TFTMB heavy]

I think the Thomas Cook flying was a result of TS buying CAnadian Affairs or some other outfit in the UK that had an agreement with TC and TS had to respect it. AT did pick up more flying as a result. Not 100% sure on this so if anyone knows for sure...

You really need to realize the difference between TS and AT, one owns the other!

As far as Gilles not commenting on Canjet and foreign pilots you can find lots of his comments on the forum regarding that.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Nothing to say about Canjet?? Ok.

If you had read my posts before writing your comment, you would have read on my very first post on this very thread:

As for LMOs don't anyone try and claim that there is a shortage of skilled pilots in Canada. There are tons of skilled people, all Sunwing and Canjet have to do is hire them and train them.......

I also mentioned Canjet on many other threads....... In fact as far as I am concerned, having Canjet hiring foreign pilots while AT pilots are layed-off is worse than seeing foreign pilots at Sunwing. But Canjet hires 30 of them while Sunwing is closer to 200.

[RogerCheckCopy]

Sorry to hear about the layoffs. Never a fun situation.

Although Sunwing's growth probably does not help your situation, I think you are overlooking the fact that WJ has added a lot of vacation flying to their schedule over the last few years. Not that long ago since they did not do it any at all. A lot of choices for the customers these days.

[whipline]

Sorry Gilles but you rarely mention Canjet. Canjet was the first company to abuse migrant workers. Sunwing opposed it to the government for the exact same reasons you do. Sunwing walked through the door opened by non other then AT/CJ and now they don't like it? Fix your own house before you come banging on ours. Your part of the same union and your flying the same pax around for Pete's sakes.

Sunwing had a ton of foreign flying offered to them this year. It was due to a spat with our membership concerning grievances the summer prior why we didn't do any this year. Your also stretching the truth saying there are no Canadians working F-reg in Europe/Uk this year. We do our utmost to keep the aircraft C-reg. Our aircraft, our contract, our Maint, our dispatch etc. it's way better then F-reg conditions.

Transat has 23 widebodies full during the summer but they don't know what to do with them in the winter? Who's fault is that? Sunwings? Geesh.

I've said this from the start and I'll say it again. What's happening with all the foreign workers is BS. It should be 1 for 1. But until you fix what's going on at group transat, your argument doesn't hold much weight. Transat is laying off 15 and Canjet is hiring 30? Here's a thought. Hire them a Canjet.

As for those out of work this fall, Hopefully it's very short lived. If we start hiring and you've applied I'm sure you'll be the first to be interviewed.

[ChallengerDan]

I think that the issue that Gilles brings to the table is commendable in theory.
I do have issues with the arguments he puts up to support it though: it is not for the greater good of the profession, it always come down to "Transat pilots are suffering from it".

As somebody pointed out, Transat's issues started when they stopped buying much of their narrowbody lift from WJ. WJ ended with a few airframes not used to the extent that they would have liked in terms of efficiency, and they dumped that overcapacity on the vacation market, all while SW was rapidly growing too. Mind you, AC also was cutting back slightly on their Vacation market flights. But because Air Transat is the least flexible in terms of fleet, having only widebodies, they felt it the hardest.

I think that anybody in this industry is aware of the issues of foreign pilots in Canada and the somewhat "creative" way that the Canadian law is used in order to achieve it. Where Gilles is losing support is with the supportive argumentation that always ends up being that it is the reason explaining Air Transat's woes. The picture is much broader and complicated than that.

It kind of reminds me about ACPA/Jazz' ALPA relationship. ACPA is good at pointing Jazz as one of the reasons that AC is not profitable. The solution: open the door to SkyRegional. Now, how has that worked out for them in the long run? They will be flying B767 at a rate less than what Jazz was charging TC and Tier II carriers will be flying even more small jets.
Go figure.

Unless the issue of foreign pilots is driven by individuals thinking about Canadian pilots globally instead of "Sunwing's foreign ops agaisnt US (AT), it won't work. They are alienating the very people who are the most likely to have any impact on the issue at hand, the Sunwing Pilot Group.

[pilote007]

Hi!

1- It's a very bad new for 50 TS pilot ... they will be on layoff just before christmas.

2- Thank you Gilles, to fill the forum with a lot of information and fact about foreign pilot ... it's a crazy situation

3- That's true ChallengerDan, the problem is foreign pilot ops against all canadian pilot!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I think that the issue that Gilles brings to the table is commendable in theory.
I do have issues with the arguments he puts up to support it though: it is not for the greater good of the profession, it always come down to "Transat pilots are suffering from it".

.........

I think that anybody in this industry is aware of the issues of foreign pilots in Canada and the somewhat "creative" way that the Canadian law is used in order to achieve it. Where Gilles is losing support is with the supportive argumentation that always ends up being that it is the reason explaining Air Transat's woes. The picture is much broader and complicated than that.

...............

Unless the issue of foreign pilots is driven by individuals thinking about Canadian pilots globally instead of "Sunwing's foreign ops agaisnt US (AT), it won't work. They are alienating the very people who are the most likely to have any impact on the issue at hand, the Sunwing Pilot Group.

For just two weeks, from May 1 to May 15, we ran a petition against the use of foreign pilots in Canada. Air Transat has about 430 pilots, under half of which signed the petition, so about 200. Yet the petition had 2,500 signatures. There are just 11,000 airline licenced pilots in Canada. Many Sunwing pilots signed it and I regularly get messages of support from Sunwing pilots who do not like what their company is up to as far as the foreign pilots.

By the way, the 50 Air Transat pilots being layed off are not just Air Transat pilots, they are Canadian Air Transat pilots and they are losing their jobs this coming winter to German, British and Czech pilots who will be working in Canada for two Canadian companies, Canjet and Sunwing.

If Sunwing did exactly what it is doing now but used Canadian pilots instead of foreign pilots, I would be clean out of arguments now wouldn't I ? That sure would shut me up.

[Gino Under]

Gilles,
I applaud your words and your efforts. We all know where the blame lies.

We also know Sunwing and Canjet management are telling little porkies to our 'haven't-got-the-slightest-clue-about-aviation' politicians and bureaucrats in Ottawa to circumvent the hiring of Canadian pilots by creatively interpreting government temporary foreign worker policy. Most of us are bright enough to acknowledge and understand the impact this deceitful practice is having on the pilot job market in this country. It's easy to understand and appreciate why companies like Air Transat and especially its management, need to affect layoffs.

SW and CJ managers are undoubtedly looking at the same or similar financial concerns regarding their own survival as well, but have simply chosen a more dispicable solution. Therein lies the difference.

For decades, the Canadian travel and tourism industry has puppeteered the charter airlines. Management at these Charter airlines know the drill and the game of 'musical chairs' that goes on from season to season, year to year. It has always been so and will continue to be so in the years ahead.

The hiring of foreign pilots at the present time when so many Canadian pilots are available is simply wrong and unnecessary.
It will only serve to destroy what little is left of a professional piloting career in Canada by depriving a specific group of Canadian pilots whose range of experience may be somewhat limited the opportunity to gain valuable experience for tomorrow by allowing these two carriers to hire temporary foreign workers.

With a number of pilots at SW and CJ supporting the practice of hiring foreign pilots seasonally I'm afraid this fight might already be lost. Sabatoged from within.

good luck on the road ahead,

Gino Under

[Mig29]

I can't read all the bickering here, all I can say is that it's sad that pilots (and F/As) are getting laid off this winter at Transat.

Having said that, some good points mentioned by someone here.

- Transat operates wide-bodies that just don't function well on short southern routes to Caribbean.

- Transat knows this very well, but the management won't/can't/doesn't care about getting a supplemental narrow body aircraft (A319/320/321 or B737s)

- Transat was advertising at one point this summer ridiculously cheap fares to Europe!! Can't blame Sunwing for that, because their fleet is predominately 737s (which don't fly overseas)

- Transat pilot union has allowed (under pressure of course by the management) another carrier to operate flights on their behalf. Canjet.

Who do you ultimately blame for all this?? An outside force, competition or does Air Transat has some internal soul searching to do?

ps. Lot of good friends working there, I wish you guys all a speedy return to the line!

[Jean-Luc Monette]

AGAIN, for the benefit of everyone posting here and elsewhere, and claiming to know about the Air Transat dynamic, stop mistaking the two entities...

[bigskyjoc]

And all this happening under one BIG umbrella at Transat and Canjet called ALPA. Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.