NavCanada and GPS

[ywgflyboy]

So I have been doing some reading on the FAA's work to "reduce gridlock" and reduce separation minimums by use of GPS - Next Gen. I can think of many benefits of this, including added coverage in current non-radar areas etc.

GPS, or ADS is currently being used in the Hudson Bay area but is it the plan to extend this coverage nation wide in the long term?
How would this affect NavCanada operations?
Would there have to be a switchover period where controllers would have to monitor both traditional SSR and GPS to ensure all aircraft are retrofitted with the new technology?

Forgive me if this has been opened up for discussion before but searching for GPS is a million hit return!

[Jerricho]

The "Free Flight" concept has been banded around for a bit now by the FAA. GPS certainly allows for reduced procedural separation standards, and ADS-B (or whatever the next incarnation it becomes) will aid ATC where current radar technology doesn't provide coverage, but when it comes down to it "gridlock" stems from number of airplanes vs runways to land them on.

[invertedattitude]

We have actually attempted allowing the airplanes to "Free Fly" we did a full fledged two day trial, and it was an absolute disaster, safety was jeopardized several times in just those two short days.

HOWEVER, that is because our airspace is setup to accomodate a certain flow of traffic, free flight in my airspace anyway will require more ATC bodies to sit, smaller sectors and a helluva lot more heads up work since airplanes are literally going EVERYWHERE. (There were more than one occasion where two enroute airplanes were crossing each others tracks three times in 300 miles) it makes it difficult to pre-plan for anymore than 5-10 minutes ahead, throw in 30+ aircraft we had in the same sector and it was "complex".

It will be coming here for sure in the short-term or so we are told, but a new sectorization will need to take place before it can be run full out again.

[Chaosrider]

I work with NAARDS in a FSS environment so things may be different for the centers controllers but what ADS-B does is just provide an additional mean to tracks airplanes so if we were to replace radar with it (assuming everybody would be equipped with it), the transition should be transparent to controllers since it would only be the "back end" that would change and the display they see would remain the same.(I actually see targets marked as ADSB on my Radar display from time to time).

From what I understand, the reduced spacing comes from switching from procedural spacing vs positively seeing the plane on the radar display and spacing according to that.

The main advantage to ADS is that it costs a LOT less than a traditionnal/SSR Radar.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[ywgflyboy]

Bets anyone on the year the last standing ILS will be decommissioned in favor/monopoly of a GPS aviation world?

Westjet has basically proven through the development of their own RNP approaches that there is operational and safety advantages.

I'm inclined to say early-mid 2020.

[ywgflyboy]

Pretty cool video.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2371819535#

[KT111]

Bets anyone on the year the last standing ILS will be decommissioned in favor/monopoly of a GPS aviation world?

Westjet has basically proven through the development of their own RNP approaches that there is operational and safety advantages.

I'm inclined to say early-mid 2020.

At the rate our technology, procedures, and companies change and adapt, I'd bet at least 2025 before they even consider decomissioning them all.

[PunkStarStudios]

I heard that new ILS approaches are not even being done in the USA anymore... I don't know if that's true or not - but that's what I heard.

[55+]

Bets anyone on the year the last standing ILS will be decommissioned in favor/monopoly of a GPS aviation world?

Westjet has basically proven through the development of their own RNP approaches that there is operational and safety advantages.

I'm inclined to say early-mid 2020.

ILS will continue to shine for the CAT III A & B IAPs for the foreseeable future as Satellite technology doesn't have the integrity without the support of some kind of ground based augmentation system that, by its' very nature will have to be airport specific. What that is and the technology associated has been the subject of some discussion.....

[G.N. Thompson]

ILS replaced here this summer...appears we now have no back course and are still skipping signal off the snowbanks to the front course?

GNT

[Chaosrider]

Same thing happen in CYVP. I was told the model of LOC they chose does not radiate any BC and the company reasonned that they could replace it with an RNAV. However the new minima for that RNAV aproach have not been authorized for the last 3 years

Also, it did cause an increase of VOR apch for 25 afterwards (wich aims aircraft straight at the tower )

[BEFAN5]

ILS replaced here this summer...appears we now have no back course and are still skipping signal off the snowbanks to the front course?

GNT

I fly to a few airports where the BC has disappeared over the past few years. I think it's one of those things that we are just a little bit more likely to screw up on because of the whole idea of them. Can I do them? Yes, I've done them in the sim a few times. Would I be putting some extra thought into the approach as I come in, darn right. With the technology we have now, I don't see the reason to have approaches that add to an already busy approach workload. Thank you RNAV!

[G.N. Thompson]

So, RNAV is approved and the limits have not been raised at any of those runways?

[BEFAN5]

RNAV mins are the same (or less). The non-rnav equipped aircraft may have higher approach mins after the BC removal at the airports I am thinking of.