Looking for a pilot and plane for July 1 - September 5 2013

[Aylmer Lake]

This position is for an experienced off airport pilot with NWT fishing experience including; current fishing licenses, plus current first aid and CPR certifications, These are all requirements of the job. If you don't or can't meet these minimum requirements, don't bother applying for this position. We are not training pilots, we are looking for an experience bush pilot with his own plane plus current experience in the NWT fishing lodge business to join our team.

Our season is late June through first week of September, you would be flying your own DH-2 Beaver, Caravan 208B,Single turbine Otter, Turbine Beaver . Must be proficient in all aircraft in short field and beach conditions and floats.

The flights would be from Yellowknife to Aylmer Lake 226 air miles NE of Yellowknife and the fly clients to out post lake to day trips about 40-50 air miles to outpost lakes.

Any thoughts?

[Hornblower]

You should clarify whether or not the applicant needs their AOC, or whether the aircraft will be put on yours, and if the latter, how much lead time you will need to get that worked out. That might eliminate a lot of unnecessary replies.

[goingmach_1]

This position is for an experienced off airport pilot with NWT fishing experience including; current fishing licenses, plus current first aid and CPR certifications, These are all requirements of the job. If you don't or can't meet these minimum requirements, don't bother applying for this position. We are not training pilots, we are looking for an experience bush pilot with his own plane plus current experience in the NWT fishing lodge business to join our team.

Our season is late June through first week of September, you would be flying your own DH-2 Beaver, Caravan 208B,Single turbine Otter, Turbine Beaver . Must be proficient in all aircraft in short field and beach conditions and floats.

The flights would be from Yellowknife to Aylmer Lake 226 air miles NE of Yellowknife and the fly clients to out post lake to day trips about 40-50 air miles to outpost lakes.

Any thoughts?

You legally are asking for charter quotes.

Seeing how you have used a public forum for your request, you will either, need your own aircraft, and hire a commercial pilot for your needs, or charter the above mentioned aircraft. Otherwise you are contravening the laws of the "Aeronautical Act".

There are many good outfits in the area who can provide the service you require.

Have fun!

[Aylmer Lake]

Thanks guys for the great advise what I am looking for is a pilot with a commercial ratting license that has his or her own plane that wants to contract out thier services to my new fishing lodge in the NWT. I was looking to buy blocks of air time like for example 100 hours or 200 hours. Not quite sure just looking for some thoughts on this.
Thanks again for the positive comments.
Kevin

[KK7]

Thanks guys for the great advise what I am looking for is a pilot with a commercial ratting license that has his or her own plane that wants to contract out thier services to my new fishing lodge in the NWT. I was looking to buy blocks of air time like for example 100 hours or 200 hours. Not quite sure just looking for some thoughts on this.
Thanks again for the positive comments.
Kevin

Sounds like what you're talking about is flying passengers for hire. In Canada that requires a Transport Canada issued Air Operator Certificate which is no small thing. A commercial pilot with his/her own private aircraft is not allowed to carry passengers for the purpose you're talking about. They would require a commercially registered aircraft and an Air Operator Certificate to do these flights. As mentioned above a company who can charter an aircraft and pilot is what you're looking for.

[altiplano]

If the lodge owned the aircraft you may not require an AOC. But if you are looking to hire a plane and pilot you will be chartering and it will be required. Plenty of operators in your parts, maybe you should be putting out a tender for quotes?

[Meatservo]

Hi Kevin, congratulations on your new lodge.

I'm afraid you're not going to be able to avoid dealing with a commercial air service in this situation, at least if you want to stay on this side of the law. A pilot is simply not allowed to receive compensation for his work unless he owns or works for a licensed air service, and his plane is registered as a commercial plane with that air service.

Oufitters in the past have tried to argue, without success, that they are not being compensated for flying the guests around per se, but are simply shuttling them around out of the kindness of their hearts after the guests have already paid for the "outfitting and guiding", but like I said, this doesn't wash with Transport Canada. The fact is, the guests are paying for the flying one way or another and therefore it is a commercial flying service. You have four choices that I can see, and one is illegal.

The first choice is to charter flights from one of the local commercial air services.

The second, try to find a commercial air service that would be willing to ADD your pilot and his machine to their AOC. I don't think you will find an air service willing to do this, but I have seen it happen. Basically the air service hires the pilot and leases his aeroplane, and then dedicates the pilot and the machine to your activities. You would have to pay for it of course, and even if you found an airline willing to play ball, where are you going to find a pilot who owns something as large and expensive as an Otter who isn't already doing something with it?

The third, get the plane and the air operator certificate yourself, hire a pilot, (YOU get to be the Operations manager and the Maintenance co-ordinator, and your wife can be the PRSMS, all required positions I'm afraid) and open "Aylmer Lake Flying Services". Good news: you've already found your first customer: you!

The fourth choice is to find a "chisel charterer": some guy who has a plane and is willing to do the work illegally. The trouble here is, not too many of these pirates have a plane big enough to do this kind of work without attracting the attention of Transport Canada, who will fine them heavily if not imprison them for providing a commercial air service without an operating certificate. You yourself could probably go to jail if anything bad ever happened (and believe me, bad stuff happens), AND if you somehow don't attract the attention of a Transport Canada inspector, there will be plenty of legitimate air services who would be more than willing to "help" you attract it. If you know what I mean.

I know you're not getting the news you want. Flying is expensive and potentially dangerous, and the government is ostensibly serving the traveling public's best interest by regulating who gets to do it. Whether they are doing a good job or not is open to debate, but we all participate in the system, or we break the law and risk the attendant consequences. Sorry to be pedantic, but what you're trying to set up has been tried before. I think you need to deal with the local air services.

Good luck with your new lodge. It's in a really nice part of the world. I bet the fishing is terrific.

[Aylmer Lake]

Thanks Meatservo we are very happy with the new lodge.
Thanks for all the advise guys this is really great to hear, not really what I wanted to hear but need too hear.
We will always play within the laws and will not break them, this is how my wife and I have always worked.
I am not in a position to buy a plane yet but that thought has crossed our mind.
We are going to be putting out a tender for charter services in Yellowknife.

I have another question what is involed with building a gravel airstrip at my lodge I have a great spot for it and it is within the area of the lease that I hold.

[Rowdy]

There are many air services that provide aircraft on short term summer leases for such purposes, much as described above. Some who arent in yellowknife may still be able to provide an aircraft and pilot under their umbrella for the lodge for the season. Perhaps some good conversation with any of the lodge owners throughout the prairie provinces, the rest of the NWT and Ontario may steer you in the proper direction.

[kevinsky18]

If there is no road, winter or otherwise, building even a low quality strip would be either impossible or so very expensive that you would have to be a billion dollar mining company to afford it. If there is a winter road to your location then I think I would be conservative if I guessed a million plus.

The issue is you need 1) gravel 2) big machines to move that gravel. There are only two ways to get gravel: haul it in or make it. Both options require big machines etc and roads to get said machinery in.

For your 3 month operation you just won't have the business to off-set the cost of building a strip. That's why floatplanes are used so much in remote regions. You could buy a single otter, maybe two on floats for the price of building a strip.

A saving grace may be that your location is so perfectly suitable that you don't need to develop it. Just cut down some tress and pull out the stumps and land with tundra tires. That said you now have to get permission to cut down those trees, good luck with that. And before you even start get a seasoned bush pilot to survey your site. Just because you think it's ideal doesn't mean it is and you will want a professional opinion before you start sinking a lot of cash and time into something that won't work out.

My suggestion, contact some of the big operators in the area, let them know you need a quote for next season. Ask them to over fly your location and survey the suitability for floats and wheels. If you're lucky they may know the area already or they may over fly it on an empty back haul and can take a quick look on their next trip to the area.

The next thing that comes to mind is, did you buy an existing business? I suspect so. What were they doing for air transport? Chances are they looked at these same options and after a few years found the most cost effective way to do business. If they didn't develop a gravel strip and used only floatplanes then there was probably a good reason why.

Best of luck

[Lost Lake]

Good luck with your venture. Unfortunately, like buying a race horse, it's not how much it cost to buy, it's what it cost to feed it. You are offering the same old pike and trout fishing every estsablished lodge in the north is offering. First off, you are going to have to use a single or twin otter to fly the 400 mile round trip. Not enough range in any thing else. OK, caravan or turbo otter. At $15/mile on a twin Otter, each round trip is going to cost you $6000. Useful load is less than 2,000 lb on a 300 series. At your current rate of $3,000 per person, the first 2 people will cover the trip. Unfortunately, you are going to need propane, boat gas, fuel oil, groceries, etc. You are going to have to move staff. There is a reason that the previous owners only wanted $60K for the lodge.

Since it is ovbvious you are inexperienced simply by your lack of knowledge in aircraft needs and costs, you are beating your head against a wall.

The harsh reality is you have an inaccesible lodge , competing with large well established operators (who are not making any money in these times, by the way) combined with a lack of tourism knowledge.

This may sound harsh, but I believe you have followed your heart instead of your head. While I know you will not accept what a person who has worked in the industry for over 25 years has to say, my suggestion is either use it as your own private camop, or eat your losses now and dump it to another unsuspecting buyer.

[jeta1]

Kevin, sounds like you're getting a bit of a wake-up call. The previous owners are listed as Alan and Kathy Rebane on the current lodge website, they would be the best to tell you how they managed their fly-in and fly-out requirements. (This may also explain to you why they sold though...)

[letsfly]

I doubt any purcchase was made without investigating the past and future operation. I also believe that this area does not have $3000.00 trips but rather in the line of $5000.00+ with moose hunts up to $10-12,000. If operated properly with good advertising and promotions there can be success keeping in mind it will not come overnight, and I doubt it was purchased on that basis.
Any venture that someone goes into should not be debated or discussed here, but rather answer the questions asked. There are Lodges all across Canada selling trips up to a value of $7-10,000 each summer, it can also happen at Aylmer Lake without a doubt. Yes, it is easier to sell 100 trips at $2000.00 than it is to sell 10 trips at $10,000.00 but those clients are out there, go get them!!!

[Johnny#5]

But don't ya know? .....everybody knows everything here!

[Lost Lake]

Letsfly: Did you look at the picture of the lodge. I'll pay you $1000 for every moose shot at that lodge. This is a basic camp located way too far away from any airport to make it profitable. There is nothing exceptional about this place. First of all. you have to fly to yellowknife. Then fly from there. The market is currently over saturated with operations that offer more for less. I really wish the new owners luck, but I don't see a future here.
Hey what do I know, I've only flown both arctics and most of Northern Ont for operators. Not one of them could afford to start up today. Most are in it because they started when it was profitable, they are debt free and and have a repeat clientel.

Wanna make a small fortune in tourism or aviation???? Start with a large one. No skin off my nose what ever Aylmer Lake does.

I would suggest going to Dragon's Den and pitching your idea to them. If you don't want to believe me, believe them.

[letsfly]

I operate a camp out of Whitehorse with a 3 star lodge and numerous tent camps. The greatest success is not measured in where you might stay but rather did the hunter enjoy the trip you provided. Yes, I saw pictures of the camp or buildings, does that make it a lost cause? I don't think so! Give the operator the benefit of possibly losing some money, or making some. The owner may already be successful in the business and this might only be an expansion, don't condemn him for that! With highs and lows in the industry I have struggled as well, but, I would have been happy to start with these same buildings and the amount they were sold for!

[Lost Lake]

Letsfly, you are talking about hunting. This is a fly in fishing camp. Whole different kettle of fish (no pun intended). The only hunting up there is caribou. And I can assure you. that is an expensive proposition. As far as the operator simply expanding, like I said, they don't know the first thing about how to transport customers, so it is a simple deduction to state that they are inexperienced.

If I thought I could make money in the tourist industry, i would buy or start a business. Fortunately, I have talked to operators all over this great country, and most are struggling to make ends meet. Hence I fly for them and make money.

Bye the way, how far out of yellowknife are your camps. And what is your game. I'm guessing moose and bear. Pretty predictable. If they were there last year, they'll be there this year. Ever tried to hunt caribou? The migration changes every year. You need someone flying around trying to find the migration, if it even passes Aylmer Lake.

I wish them well, I just think they are climbing a hill covered in marbles and grease. I've said my peace. Good luck to you Aylmer Lake. If you would like any tips or info, please feel free to PM me. I will give you what ever knowledge or advice I have.

[letsfly]

Lost Lake! I am not saying that I disagree with you!!! I am only suggesting that this future outfitter was looking for information, not condemnation. My operation has a flight of 160 miles max. Moose, Mountain Caribou, Bears, Sheep and some Goats. The Aylmer Lake area is known for the Caribou Migration, Moose and great fishing. We don't know the plans for this outfitter, and I believe you have lots of experience, so, let him try. Like you said, its not your loss.

[Lost Lake]

Like I said, good luck to him. Maybe instead of coming on line asking for a highly specialized pilot with his own plane , he should of asked for advice on how he could move passengers economically. I've offered my experience if he's interested.

The end.