Muslim Pilots in Canada

[delay256]

I am interested to know how the aviation industry has affected the morale of Muslim Pilots in Canada? Have you been subjected to extra security checks? Have you had trouble gaining employment?

On the other hand do Muslim pilots feel that the industry here has supported them through Canada's values of tolerance and multiculturalism.

Many student pilots in the states had to stop their training after 9/11 and many muslim pilots have subsequently lost employment. I was wondering what impact geopolitical events at the turn of the previous decade has had on Muslim pilots here from a training/employment and general aviation perspective.

[Eric Janson]

Just exactly how can you distinguish a Muslim Pilot from any other Pilot?

I work with Pilots from many different ethnic and religious backgrounds. I believe we have over 30 different nationalities at my Airline.

Not all areas of the world are as Xenophobic as North America.

[Doc]

I can see a vast decrease in the number of Scientology pilots after 911. Certainly has taken its toll on the Witnesses of Jehovah as well. This is silly.

[delay256]

There shouldn't be any distinction at all but we all know that discrimination occurs. Why should any group be invariably be subject to secondary inspections at airports?

Purpose of the thread was to hear peoples experiences.

[delay256]

@Doc

Easy for you to make incendiary remarks when you aren't the one who has to face the brunt of it.

[Changes in Latitudes]

There shouldn't be any distinction at all but we all know that discrimination occurs. Why should any group be invariably be subject to secondary inspections at airports?

Purpose of the thread was to hear peoples experiences.

I've never been asked my religious affiliation at security checkpoints.

[anonymity]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Muslim is a faith and not a specific race, now if you are asking if people who look like they come from a part of the world where the majority are Muslim, I will ask you, who is responsible for checking pilots at check points?
The majority look like they could be Muslim and if it weren't for the randomizer...

[mcrit]

There shouldn't be any distinction at all but we all know that discrimination occurs. Why should any group be invariably be subject to secondary inspections at airports?

Delay, you are trolling. I ought to know better than to feed you, but I've put a few JD's down range tonight so open wide.

I'm about as WASP as you're likely to find, and I've had more than my fair share of up close and friendlies going through security. You want to know the funny thing? When I pass through Pearson it's almost always a brown guy or gal giving me the once over.

You want to know something even funnier? When I applied for my current job my hiring was delayed for 18 months while they did a security check on me. I had worked in Japan 8 years prior to my application and that really threw a wrench in the works. However, refugees, (some of them from countries we were at war in), were not subjected to said delay in hiring or security check.

So, the answer to your question is: some people just get lucky when it comes to security. It has nothing to do with your race.

On a tangent, this reminds me of when I used to teach High School. There were certain kids who assumed that every bad turn of events in their lives was the result of racism. It provided them with a great excuse for their own short comings.

[mcrit]

When your name is Mohamed Hussein Abdul Khaled Hatha Hatha Hatha, there isnt any reason to ask.

Have you considered shortening it to 'Mo'? I mean, it would make life much easier filling out forms and what not.......

[Rudder Bug]

When your name is Mohamed Hussein Abdul Khaled Hatha Hatha Hatha, there isnt any reason to ask.

If my name was that long I would be happy to be called Moe!

[azimuthaviation]

What happened to that guaranteed job in the middle east after you got your a320 rating?

[delay256]

@azimuth

Check PM

[Rowdy]

I'm with Mcrit on this one. I work with a vast array of different backgrounds, ethnicities and beliefs in this industry. So far I have yet to see any of my co workers belittled or treated differently because of it, especially by security. The only people in my time on this rock that seem to have issues are those that purposely bring it upon themselves. Like by purposely identifying themselves as say.. 'muslim pilots' on anonymous internet threads!

[azimuthaviation]

Just because you say there isnt any discrimination in treatment towards Muslims, or people who look or sound like Muslims, doesnt mean thats the case. Or other minority ethnic groups for that matter. And its not just in aviation either. You can talk about reverse discrimination or unfairness being spread in other needless ways but thats just dodging the issue, and there is an issue. As for Muslims and Arabs in this country its not too bad of an issue, since we have a strong network in the private sector in almost all industries. There is a certain derating factor in hiring if youre Arab, but if you do a better job than your peers (which around here isnt too hard to do) you'll be able to overcome it. I youre a Muslim, you can, in almost every major city in this country, only see a Muslim doctor, see a Muslim barber, work for a Muslim, befriend Muslims, buy from and sell to another Muslim and you wont lack for anything. Theres one million of them in Canada. And there are many people who would rather never see a Muslim doctor, hire a Muslim, befriend one, and you may just end up walking up to one of them looking for a job. So you wont get it and you go to the next one. Its bound to happen once in your lifetime and its not an insurmountable obstacle.

[KK7]

I was a flight instructor shortly after 9/11, and at the school I worked at we had a few students who may have been Muslim, but they had some family connection to the Middle East. In one case, the student was a medical doctor, moved to Canada at a young age. The RCMP requested a list of all students and picked some, including this doctor, for long interviews. I was told it wasn't the most pleasant experience. After that, anytime something terrorist related occurred, he took a little break from flying to avoid another unpleasant run in with the RCMP.

[azimuthaviation]

I was a flight instructor shortly after 9/11, and at the school I worked at we had a few students who may have been Muslim, but they had some family connection to the Middle East. In one case, the student was a medical doctor, moved to Canada at a young age. The RCMP requested a list of all students and picked some, including this doctor, for long interviews. I was told it wasn't the most pleasant experience. After that, anytime something terrorist related occurred, he took a little break from flying to avoid another unpleasant run in with the RCMP.

Sounds like another case of blaming racism for every downturn in life. This doctor is just looking for a place to blame his short comings.

[Shiny Side Up]

The RCMP requested a list of all students and picked some.

You gave them a list of your students? They need to have a warrant for that sort of stuff you know. They asked us too. Weasked them for supoena or a warrant to search our stuff. They said they should be able to just look. We said no. They didn't.

[Gravol]

@Doc

Easy for you to make incendiary remarks when you aren't the one who has to face the brunt of it.

Then shed that layer of thin skin and be a better person because of it. You think that a Muslim is the only person who can be offended / discriminated against?

Just because you say there isnt any discrimination in treatment towards Muslims, or people who look or sound like Muslims, doesnt mean thats the case. Or other minority ethnic groups for that matter. And its not just in aviation either. You can talk about reverse discrimination or unfairness being spread in other needless ways but thats just dodging the issue, and there is an issue.

Exactly. It really just needs to stop right there.

As for Muslims and Arabs in this country its not too bad of an issue, since we have a strong network in the private sector in almost all industries.

here is a certain derating factor in hiring if youre Arab, but if you do a better job than your peers (which around here isnt too hard to do) you'll be able to overcome it.

Can you please elaborate on this a bit more? Are you saying Arabs do much better than other Canadians? "we Muslims are bound together in all professions" may have just rubbed me the wrong way. I mean if I said the same thing about Caucasian men and women, surely i'd be detained. Sure, it's great to have a community one can interact with in peaceful ways thus improving ones society because of it. Please clarify.

[Tim]

i dont understand why people dont think this is a valid question. post-9/11 it only got way worse to be one type of person, especially if that person was anywhere near a plane. and im not talking longer delay`s going through security.

anyone remember the story about the guy wearing a big cross around his neck that got forced off a plane because his fellow passengers didnt feel safe flying with him? no? how about the hasidic jew? no to that too?

someone mentioned that muslim isnt a race, its a good point. i have a born-in-canada white friend who happens to be a female and wear a hijab. wanna guess what side of the fence she falls on to those who promote bigotry and isolationism?

i had the opportunity the instruct with and work with people from all over the world, including a host of muslim countries (egypt, algeria, ghana, saudi arabia, iran, UAE, the list goes on). never thought any of them were terrorists. i did jokingly call one a terrorist in a bar one night after a few beers. he took me aside a little later and told me how much that offend him and other muslims, and how hard so many of them work to maintain a clean image in canada, knowing that any little oddity, difference, mistake or problem will bring undue scrutiny. i apologized and regret joking about it to this day. luckily hes a friend of mine and had been for years, so i got the benefit of the doubt that night and we`re still friends now.

the point is, this only happens to one kind of person.

[hoptwoit]

I will probably get flamed for this but whatever.
I am finding to difficult to apply words like tolerance to the muslim faith. I am tired of hearing how offended people are at cartoons and idiodic films. The idea that we canadians are so tolerant that we would entertain the idea of sharia law being implemented in any form shakes my vision of Canada to the core. Dont get me wrong this isnt just a muslim thing there are many groups and faiths that want to come to Canada and keep their culture so completly that they try to change the country around them. The worst thing that Canada has done is accepted the view that we are hyphinated Canadians. We should consider ourselves Canadians first and be proud of this country and the freedoms it afford all of us.
Flame away.
Oh and by the way if this isnt a watercooler topic i dont know what is.

[tbaylx]

I will probably get flamed for this but whatever.
I am finding to difficult to apply words like tolerance to the muslim faith. I am tired of hearing how offended people are at cartoons and idiodic films. The idea that we canadians are so tolerant that we would entertain the idea of sharia law being implemented in any form shakes my vision of Canada to the core. Dont get me wrong this isnt just a muslim thing there are many groups and faiths that want to come to Canada and keep their culture so completly that they try to change the country around them. The worst thing that Canada has done is accepted the view that we are hyphinated Canadians. We should consider ourselves Canadians first and be proud of this country and the freedoms it afford all of us.
Flame away.
Oh and by the way if this isnt a watercooler topic i dont know what is.

You sure aren't the only one that feels that way..i would say that describes an awful lot of us here.

[Gravol]

I will probably get flamed for this but whatever.
I am finding to difficult to apply words like tolerance to the muslim faith. I am tired of hearing how offended people are at cartoons and idiodic films. The idea that we canadians are so tolerant that we would entertain the idea of sharia law being implemented in any form shakes my vision of Canada to the core. Dont get me wrong this isnt just a muslim thing there are many groups and faiths that want to come to Canada and keep their culture so completly that they try to change the country around them. The worst thing that Canada has done is accepted the view that we are hyphinated Canadians. We should consider ourselves Canadians first and be proud of this country and the freedoms it afford all of us.
Flame away.
Oh and by the way if this isnt a watercooler topic i dont know what is.

Atheist Pat Condell sure had something to say on recent events! He speaks the same way about all religion. Makes some pretty good points absent the emotions.

[Indanao]

+1

[Sidebar]

We should consider ourselves Canadians first and be proud of this country and the freedoms it afford all of us.

Well said! My thoughts exactly.

[Siddley Hawker]