Random Drug and Alcohol Testing

[North Shore]

Just what "right" are you defending here?

Erm, presumption of innocence, and right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, for starters...

[Masters Off]

Doc,

Before you start getting too into this topic; i'll stand with you to change the laws on fatigue/duty times. You'll never hear an argument to say we should up them.

[Sidebar]

Doc,

Before you start getting too into this topic ...

Too late, 12 posts and counting.

[Doc]

Doc,

Before you start getting too into this topic ...

Too late, 12 posts and counting.

Aw, you're counting my posts. How sweet. Guess it's 13 now.

Fatigue and duty times must change. Good call there, MO. A big problem with making changes are the fact we're Federally regulated. The feds are piss poor when it comes to working conditions and the like, compared to the Provinces. Consider minimum wage standards. How many hours a week are aviations workers allowed to work in a weeK? How many hours is a burger flipper allowed to work in a week? Speaks volumes.

Sidebar, as for many posts on the subject, I'm bitching for everybody here......some of these guys don't mind being door mats. I do.

['CauseTheCaravanCan]

Half the twats posting on this very thread would be weeded out right up front.

Help me to understand the mad dash to give up your rights and freedoms by all these "sheep" that call themselves "professional"? We can't even stand together on an issue like this (which BTW, would make it go away) how could anybody expect pilots to arrange a circle jerk?

oh Doc, you had me at "twat"

Where do I sign up to be on your "oh so professional" Team.

Baaaaaaah

[Sidebar]

A big problem with making changes are the fact we're Federally regulated.

And the CARAC process for changes to the CARs take forever!

as for many posts on the subject, I'm bitching for everybody here......

And you do it very well.

[Beefitarian]

But Doc don't you also feel bad for the pseudo nurse that has to open the sample jar of your bright orange smelly old guy urine? Won't they have to go flip burgers once they lose their drug testing job?

[Doc]

But Doc don't you also feel bad for the pseudo nurse that has to open the sample jar of your bright orange smelly old guy urine? Won't they have to go flip burgers once they lose their drug testing job?

Pretty obvious to me we will have to discuss this over steaks at the KEG!

[Doc]

Half the twats posting on this very thread would be weeded out right up front.

Help me to understand the mad dash to give up your rights and freedoms by all these "sheep" that call themselves "professional"? We can't even stand together on an issue like this (which BTW, would make it go away) how could anybody expect pilots to arrange a circle jerk?

oh Doc, you had me at "twat"

Where do I sign up to be on your "oh so professional" Team.

Baaaaaaah

Well, it was supposed to be "twits", but if twat suits you better, I'll leave it in there....jus for you. Got anything borderline intelligent you'd like to ad to the subject? Doubt it.

[Beefitarian]

Pretty obvious to me we will have to discuss this over steaks at the KEG!

Ok but I think there's better locations for steak in Calgary.

[just curious]

I've had to have them for oil company work and overseas. I'm not about to pay for them ever. As for random testing, clients can improve a lot of conditions for my safety first. Then talk to me about it.

[Guy Incognito]

To quote Terry Pratchett;

Commander Vimes didn’t like the phrase “The innocent have nothing to fear,” believing the innocent had everything to fear, mostly from the guilty but in the longer term even more from those who say things like “The innocent have nothing to fear”.

[PPslap]

Drug testing sure helped the canadian military clean up their pot smoking problem. Fearing drug tests, our boys have switched to cocaine and pills to replace their recreational drug of choice. Apparently pot takes months to get out of the system, where cocain and others take only 2 or 3 days at most. Just ask one of the b'ys at CFB Gaugetown.

.... Before we even consider surrendering our rights and freedoms, lets maybe make sure that drug testing actually improves safety. Let's objectively study the success or failures of drugtesting in other industrys. Then weigh that against the economic cost and rights viloations that will accompany it.

[godsrcrazy]

Sidebar, as for many posts on the subject, I'm bitching for everybody here......some of these guys don't mind being door mats. I do.

Doc please don't say you are bitching for everybody on here. If i have something to bitch about i am very capable of doing it on my own and I am a big boy and i will fight my own fights thank you very much.

[ScudRunner]

I just do a rail off the dash before I take off its SOP

[Doc]

Sidebar, as for many posts on the subject, I'm bitching for everybody here......some of these guys don't mind being door mats. I do.

Doc please don't say you are bitching for everybody on here. If i have something to bitch about i am very capable of doing it on my own and I am a big boy and i will fight my own fights thank you very much.

I take it that means you're in favour of random drug and alcohol testing then? I know you can bitch for yourself. I've heard you. Not that I GARA.

[shimmydampner]

It is remarkable you can hear anything over your own pompous bellowing.

[Doc]

It is remarkable you can hear anything over your own pompous bellowing.

Speak up, I can't hear you.....

Seriously though, it's not about me...it's about....Aw, who gives a FU*K? I don't any more. PHUQUE IT! I'M OUT OF HERE! You can all go piss in a jar.....hope they draw blood from you as well....PHUQUE IT

[Colonel Sanders]

Putting a little perspective on it ...

I give sperm samples to every woman I can,
that I meet in a bar. Philosophically, how can
I refuse a random guy I meet on the street who
only wants me to piddle in a bottle?

If I did, wouldn't I be a bit of a hypocrite? Or
at least practicing some form of gender discrimination?

Back to Tolstoy. Has to be better than that idiot
Robert Pirsig.

[Meatservo]

I just have trouble believing you guys are willing to make a stink over this but you're perfectly willing to have your eyeballs scanned and fingerprints taken, and fill out questionnaires about where your family comes from and whether you ever leave the country. There's no way they can legally use any of that information without violating any of the same rights you're all cawing and bleating about here, yet you're all perfectly willing to stand up and be profiled to get the meaningless red badge. I would like to see one of you refuse to comply and still keep his job. Who will be the first to refuse to submit? I bet if I did I would lose my job and the rest of you would leave me flapping in the wind while you shuffle off to your piss tests, and your jobs, or hey, even MY job.

Just what "right" are you defending here?

Erm, presumption of innocence, and right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, for starters...

... and YOU, mister, were not presumed to be innocent when they made you answer questions about where your father was from and what port he emigrated through, when they unreasonably searched your eyeballs and seized your fingerprints to apply for a "red pass".

Heck, I'm surprised you have a pilot's license, considering that once every six months you have to submit to having your urine seized and boxer shorts searched at the doctors' office. What about your rights?

There's nothing about a quick piss test that's philosophically any different than being stopped by the R.I.D.E. program on new years' eve.

[Beefitarian]

I'll make a fuss about this, yet seriously. I have no idea what they're doing with my sample from the MOT check up. Then this is a serious possibility..

Who will be the first to refuse to submit? I bet if I did I would lose my job and the rest of you would leave me flapping in the wind while you shuffle off to your piss tests, and your jobs, or hey, even MY job.

[Sulako]

They are testing for protein to make sure your kidneys work. I watched the nurse do it once.

[Beefitarian]

They're not checking for diabetes like another member here posted once?

I was sent to a urologist years ago because for some reason my father, brother and I all have high levels of blood in our urine. I was the first to find out because of my MOT urine sample.

I watched a nurse dip a stick in my sample during a physical for a job driving truck for a drywall delivery company. I asked, "Do you check for blood?" she responded "Yes. This test checks for a whole bunch of things. PH, blood, protein, diabetes, etc." I know for fact there was a drug test there because they told us. I think it was a separate thing but don't remember.

At another job where I went for pre-hire urine based drug test, the apprentice they hired the same time told me at lunch later in the week, about how he allegedly was smoking up the day before it but just drank a litre of orange juice later that evening and a second litre the next morning, then passed by defeating it.

Point? If other places are checking for several things already with a single stick, why wouldn't the CAME be using such 6 year old technology? What if an american produced test kit becomes standard and starts checking for drugs then what?

I just never did any recreational substances besides alcohol. Some argue it's worse than weed, maybe it is.

[human garbage]

This can be debated based on personal viewpoint, but the bottom line is in Canada, random (and pre-employment for that matter) drug/alcohol testing is illegal period. It is a contravention of the Canadian Human Rights Act. The Canadian Human Rights Commission will accept complaints from employees or applicants if they are subjected to it.

Some germane reading: http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/pdf/poldrgalceng.pdf

Agree or disagree it is the law of the land... And I agree because drug/alcohol testing has not been proven to reduce risk or increase safety. In the absence of a good reason such as that, then personal privacy trumps all. As far as submitting to an invasive and illegal test is concerned, be like Nancy Reagan and 'just say no'.

[CD]

More than 100 airline employees have tested positive to drugs or alcohol over 17 months (Australia)
The tests included 80 positive drug detections and 24 alcohol breaches.

Mark Dunn
Herald Sun
October 30, 2012 12:00AM

MORE than 100 airline industry employees have tested positive to drugs or alcohol in internal tests over a 17-month period, data from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority has revealed.

The tests, which included 80 positive drug detections and 24 alcohol breaches, are those taken by air and cabin crew, maintenance personnel, air traffic control staff, ground and baggage workers, refuellers and security screening employees who have a direct effect on air safety.

The results of internal tests, administered by commercial airlines and private aviation firms, have previously not been made public but were released by CASA for transparency reasons on the basis they did not identify individual operators or personnel.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said despite the positive results, they reflected breaches by 0.41 per cent of the 19,402 drug tests and 0.087 per cent of the 27,459 alcohol tests.

While CASA said any positive results for people operating in "safety sensitive" aviation positions was concerning, it is believed only two breaches were recorded by pilots or flight crew with most instances relating to ground staff, baggage handlers or cabin crew.

In a two-tier testing system introduced in 2008, random testing by CASA turned up a further 45 positive drug or alcohol results from 51,000 tests, of which 18 were subsequently overturned following medical reviews that identify prescription medication breaches.

The second tier of testing sees industry operators undertaking internal testing of SSAA (safety sensitive aviation activity) personnel for alcohol and drugs including amphetamines, cannabis, heroin, LSD, Ecstasy, cocaine, sleeping pills and PCP (Phencyclidine).

The legal alcohol limit for airline staff is 0.02 per cent.

A Qantas captain suspected of having consumed alcohol was stood down from the controls of a Boeing 767-300 shortly before it was due to take-off from Sydney on July 30.

It is believed cabin crew raised concerns about the pilot amid suspicions the captain had been drinking prior to the flight.

Eight cabin crew tested positive, five aircraft engineers, one refueller, a security guard, four baggage handlers and two foreign staff.

Complete article here...