military req.

[shurshot17]

Im currently going to university at mount royal in their aviation program. I was told by 2 current snowbird pilots that they went their and highly recommend it. I contacted a Recruiter and was told you need a 4 year degree to even apply for the Canadian forces as a pilot. But yet both the snowbirds got in with only the 2 year diploma from Mount Royal.... Can anyone confirm?

[Crimmsy]

The two most common entry plans for pilots are Direct Entry Officer (DEO) for people who have a bachelor degree, and Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) for people without a degree. ROTP candidates are sent to RMC or civilian universities for up to four years of fully subsidized education to obtain a degree.

Occasionally (very rarely in the past couple years), people have been enrolled in the Continuing Education Officer Training Plan (CEOTP). Under this plan, high school grads without a degree are enrolled to meet pressing needs of the service, the deal being that they will obtain a degree on their own time and cost within their first nine years of service. Lately, there hasn't been quite the need for people so this program has been closed. Keep checking in with the recruiters though because circumstances change from year to year.

cheers,
Crimmsy

[mcrit]

On a bit of a tangent; Now is a good time to put in an application. The rumblings at 2 CAD are that the RCAF will be recruiting a large number of pilots in the near future. This increases the chances of getting in CEOTP (at least if the pattern from last time is an indicator).

[Gravol]

On a bit of a tangent; Now is a good time to put in an application. The rumblings at 2 CAD are that the RCAF will be recruiting a large number of pilots in the near future. This increases the chances of getting in CEOTP (at least if the pattern from last time is an indicator).

What is 2 CAD? So even those they are taking no more applicants this year .... you're saying they are forecasting another surge in April?

[Nark]

While information here is a great start, contact a recruiter. Get it in writing.
Have a blast.

[mcrit]

2 CAD = 2 Canadian Air Division. They are in charge of training in the RCAF.

[Gravol]

So the word on the street is they will be hiring a bunch more next year ?

[Defy Gravity]

CF has an ad on Workopolis and Monster for Pilots.

http://www.workopolis.com/jobsearch/job/14074212?uc=E8

http://jobview.monster.ca/PILOT-Job-CA-114867615.aspx

[Gravol]

Those are for skilled applicants. AKA, ex air force pilots.

[bradley]

The Canadian Forces used to accept pilot applicants with diplomas from aviation programs under the community college entry plan (CCEP). This entry plan no longer exists, and all pilots now require a university degree (3 year degrees are acceptable too).

They are hiring more pilots these days than in recent years, but there is no shortage of applicants so they won't be lowering the requirements any time soon. Your only real options to join are ROTP and DEO. CEOTP is usually only offered to re-enrollees and NCMs that transfer to pilot.

[frosti]

The rumblings at 2 CAD are that the RCAF will be recruiting a large number of pilots in the near future.

Anything more specific? Fighters, transports or Heli?

[mcrit]

Anything more specific? Fighters, transports or Heli?

What I was told was that the back log for YMJ was pretty much cleared up, we are undermanned and 2 CAD was looking to recruit.

CEOTP is usually only offered to re-enrollees and NCMs that transfer to pilot.

CEOTP is used to fill understrength trades. When I went through in 2005 there were CEOTP Infantry, Artillery, Armoured, Pilot, AEC, and ACSO officers. The vast majority of them (80%) were recruited off the street.

[bradley]

The rumblings at 2 CAD are that the RCAF will be recruiting a large number of pilots in the near future.

Anything more specific? Fighters, transports or Heli?

No. You don't get selected until you are finished phase II, so it is impossible to forecast how many of each there will be that far in advance. Courses going through Moose Jaw right now are predominantly going Helo, but it changes course to course.

They are making a lot of changes to pilot training these days to try and increase yearly output. Aircrew selection is different now and PFT and BFT both have a brand new syllabus. They have already started hiring more pilots this year, and expect it to continue next year.

CEOTP is usually only offered to re-enrollees and NCMs that transfer to pilot.

CEOTP is used to fill understrength trades. When I went through in 2005 there were CEOTP Infantry, Artillery, Armoured, Pilot, AEC, and ACSO officers. The vast majority of them (80%) were recruited off the street.

In 2005... In the past few years they have drastically cut the number of off-the-street CEOTP pilot slots. They do have a brand new "CEOTP" program in partnership with Seneca College though, the first batch of guys just started. Not sure why it's being called CEOTP though, it's pretty much just ROTP with flight training built into it. http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/15w-15 ... p?id=12931

[frosti]

You don't get selected until you are finished phase II,

Well yes that's a given, but if there is a shortage of pilots for lets say fighters, they won't be placing candidates into the transport world. There has to be a shortage somewhere for an increase in recruiting.

Now if only the same thing could be applied to the a/c maint trades. Going to be a lot of unhappy pilots(fighter mainly) sitting around due to broken aircraft because all your techs are releasing to work in the patch.

[mcrit]

In the past few years they have drastically cut the number of off-the-street CEOTP pilot slots.

That could be because the people in the first few batches have had a hard time getting their degrees' done in the time limit. Time will tell.

Now if only the same thing could be applied to the a/c maint trades.

They've had a push on for tech trades for years now. They just can't seem to find qualified people that are interested in joining. They've even come up with a paid education program, (NCM SEP) to try and get people into the Tech Trades. They'll pay your tuition at a college and pay you while you go to school. Very few takers.

[bradley]

Yes, one of the big reasons why CEOTP pilot is in decline is because quite a few guys could not or did not finish their degrees in the allotted time.

You don't get selected until you are finished phase II,

Well yes that's a given, but if there is a shortage of pilots for lets say fighters, they won't be placing candidates into the transport world. There has to be a shortage somewhere for an increase in recruiting.

The helo and jet communities are the most short of people right now, but there is a constant demand for people in each stream; every course is going to get a bit of everything. The numbers depend on the availability of PH3 courses, capacity of the OTUs and the overall demand from the community. The last few courses have been heavy on helo spots (2/3ish), but a few courses from now might be completely different. They can't just send everybody helos if they are short helo pilots, as the capacity to train that many helo pilots simply doesn't exist. The system is designed for a constant flow of guys in each stream, with ebbs and flows in each stream's numbers as demand changes and training spots become available.

[frosti]

They've had a push on for tech trades for years now. They just can't seem to find qualified people that are interested in joining. They've even come up with a paid education program, (NCM SEP) to try and get people into the Tech Trades. They'll pay your tuition at a college and pay you while you go to school. Very few takers.

They should start with trying to keep the people who are in the trades right now, before everyone leaves. Young techs with less than 5 years in are not re-signing and moving on. The government has big plans with the new fighters, but who is going to maintain them? In the past 3-4 years, I'd say over 70% have either left or are leaving within months. The CF is losing to the oil sector horribly right now and they are doing nothing to compensate the troops living there. Right now I would not recommend any qualified people to join the CF.

[OfstieR]

From what I was told they had approximately 180 (ish) Pilot slots this year. That's an unusually large intake number. AFAIK they have filled all of the available slots this fiscal year, and any new applicants will most likely have to wait until the new fiscal year (April/13) for more positions to open up. Although just because there aren't any open slots doesn't mean they aren't accepting applications still for the next fiscal year. Best bet is to check with the recruiting center for the latest up-to-date information.

The new CEOTP is open, and should be again next fiscal year. Basically they send you to Seneca College for a total of 5 acedemic semesters, in two seperate periods of full time subsidized schooling. In the periods between those two school years at Seneca the candidates are sent to their two main flying courses/various other courses. The idea is to have a wings qualified Pilot with a Bacchelor of Aviation Technology degree from Seneca College in just over 4 years. It's a pretty good deal, especially because you get paid a full wage as a 2Lt. througout the duration of your training, as opposed to ROTP where you get paid as an Ocdt for four years of university. Quite a big difference in pay between the two.

Anyways, hope this helps.


Cheers,

Rob

[DanWEC]

Not to thread hijack, but I have a question that I hope someone could answer.

Say I want to I enlist as a DEO with a BSc., pass medical, then go through the CFASC.

If I don't pass the selection, am I still enlisted with a commitment period, placed in a ground position?
Same question but if further on- if I pass ASC but subsequently bomb out pilot training later, am I released or still enlisted?

Thanks,

Dan

[Whiskey25]

Unless things have drastically changed you're not enrolled when you go to aircrew selection therefore you don't have any obligation. If you don't pass, the recruiting centre will likely offer you other options if you still want to enrol in the military. If you fail during pilot training, you will already be a serving member of the military and likely have incurred some obligatory service. I believe in your case you would owe the military a 3 year commitment prior to wings, BUT once you complete pilot training to wings standard, you then have a 7 (9? I'm sure someone will correct me) year commitment to serve. The recruiting centre should be able to give you exact obligatory service requirements, it's been a while since I had to know those numbers. You'll be free to go or stay after you have served your time.

The 7 years may sound like a long time, but the flying is great and you get to do a lot of cool sh1t all around the world. I stayed for over 21 years and would do it all over again.

[Crimmsy]

First question - as a DEO, you'd be doing ASC before signing on, so if you didn't make it in for pilot, your offer would specify the occupation you'd be signing on for. Whether you enrol or not under those terms would be up to you.

Second question - Not sure about the current policy. I know of specific individuals who have been reassigned to other occupations (some as officers and others who have resigned their commissions and joined the ranks) and others who have gotten out. The recruiter should be able to explain the current policy.

Edit: to Whiskey's reply: the current restricted release period is seven years after wings for pilots.

[DanWEC]

Thank you for the responses, much appreciated. It's still something I'm mulling over seriously, but have yet to go any further.
The commitment period may be higher now, but that's inconsequential. I'd want to stick around long enough to have a good pension when all the action is over anyhow.

Thanks again.

[mcrit]

If you are DEO you do not owe any obligatory service until after wings graduation. If you fail out of pilot training you can release, (it may take a while for the paper work to process). If you would like to stay in, that is usually an option. There are often openings in other trades.

Once the CF has paid for your education, (ROTP), you will owe obligatory service. If you fail out of training you will be transferred to another occupation. Just look at it as 5 years guaranteed employment with medical and dental benefits.

[Whiskey25]

I feel I should add a little more to my response... the military certainly isn't for everybody. I had a great career and very few complaints. One thing you need to know going in, the RCAF will see you as an Officer first not a pilot, in other words, you are officer filling the position of pilot. This goes back to what I said before, if you fail you are considered an officer first and I would expect that release after failing pilot training is the exception.

As with any big organization, there will always be a few idiots, and there's always one on every crew. As long as you know who the idiot is, then you know it's not you!

You may not get to fly the type of aircraft you hoped for when you signed on the dotted line. During my basic flying training, 11 of the 14 guys on course were selected for helicopters and it wasn't there first choice either. Quite a few managed to come back over to fixed wing, but 99.9% of the time the easiest way to do that is by going to Moose Jaw to teach.

You may ask yourself "Where will I live?" Well, the military is going to be kind enough to ASK you where you would like to live depending on where your aircraft type is based, then they're going to TELL you where you will live... hopefully the two match up. You can expect to move every 3-5 years, so warn your spouse well in advance if he/she has a particular career requirements. Not much different than following the jobs around the country really. Some of the bases in the military are really good (Comox) and some not so much. If you REALLY need to live in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal then this isn't the job for you.

Ultimately the military has a significant amount of control over your life while you are serving and you will most likely be asked to put yourself in harms way at some point. I'm sure there are plenty of military or ex-military guys on AvCanada who would be willing to share their experiences both good and bad.

Ciao

[Panama Jack]

Put youself in harms way?

I got the impression from the US Forces recruitment programs that you go to the military as some sort of a social program- get tought some sort of useful resume-building job skills, some exotic travel and get money for college and VA medical benefits.