Apprentice Liability

[DonutHole]

Hello once again AvCanada populace.

I have a question for the great oracle of avcanada regarding the liability involved for an apprentice entering the industry.

Where does the liability fall if an apprentice signs a column in an inspection document and the work is done incorrectly? Is it on the apprentice or on the signing engineer?

Is there an applicable CAR or Standard that addresses this?

Thank you in advance.

DH

[Bede]

Are you referring to civil liability (if you get sued) or administrative liability (CAR's infraction)?

Usually it would be the AME who has the license and signs the maintenance release.

[Taiser]

When I was an apprentice we had a C-185 on floats go down in the rhubarb on take-off right after I slipped it back to the lake after an annual. I did the inspection and it was checked over by my boss and he signed off on it. Since I did all the work investigators had tough questions (wasn't fun that's for sure) for me and him (my boss) but ultimately the blame goes on the signing authority. I assume any lawsuit would go to the company and the owner, although anybody working on the plane could be named in the suit.

In my case it turns out the pilot did not check the fuel (moron) before take off and ran out. He was not hurt too badly but the plane was written off.

[robertw]

People are mistaken when they think that since "someone else signed it out" or "I work under an AMO", that they are fully protected from civil or criminal charges or liability if something were to go sideways on an aeronautical product that they fixed or inspected. If something you worked on had a catastrophic failure, crashed and burned, seized or just stopped working causing the deaths of any individual or destruction of property, look out! If lawyers were able to prove that you were negligent in your duties or sloppy in your work, there's a high probability that you'd face charges. TCCA can't really touch you if you are unlicensed, but I suppose that if it was proved that you were negligent, they could fine you under the CAR's.

[flyinggreasemonkey]

TCCA can't really touch you if you are unlicensed, but I suppose that if it was proved that you were negligent, they could fine you under the CAR's.

Do TC inspectors have some sort of discretionary leeway in term of issuing a license? If someone if found to be at fault for an accident, I could see how getting a license should be much more difficult, especially if there is loss of hull or life involved. I personally would have a hard time issuing a license if I were a TC inspector if an apprentice had killed someone by way of negligence...

[Taiser]

I personally would have a hard time issuing a license if I were a TC inspector if an apprentice had killed someone by way of negligence...

That would be an entire different ball game. An apprentice in that scenario would probably be looking at criminal charges, like Criminal Negligence Causing Death for one, so would the guy who signed the thing off, especially if you can prove gross negligence! I think the last thing on his mind would be what TC could do to him! And then even after all the charges and license stuff was dealt (assuming he could ever get a license now) with, who would hire him? I think the only job he could get in the aviation field after that would working at the airport replacing toilet rolls in the bathrooms!

[kevinsky18]

double post

[kevinsky18]

Where does the liability fall if an apprentice signs a column in an inspection document and the work is done incorrectly? Is it on the apprentice or on the signing engineer?

It's funny how people don't seem to understand what a signature is. Your signature is more than just your name it's a binding contract and has been for millennia.

When you sign something you are acknowledging that you understand the full ramifications of the document you are signing.

If it’s a maintenance release you are basically swearing that you understand that it’s a maintenance release, you understand how to confirm the work has been done correctly and you are swearing that in fact it was done correctly.

What will happen if you falsify a maintenance log:

a)If you’re lucky the customer will notice the poor workmanship come back and bitch to the owner. The owner will take up the concern with the licensed mechanic and he’ll either admit his mistake or quietly blame the new guy / apprentice and that will be the end of it.

b)If you’re not so lucky and the plane crashes and people die, or an insurance claim is submitted then look out because lawyers are going to be all over this. There’s no hiding. And everyone is going to be protecting their own asses and trying to blame everyone but themselves. You as a signing authority will be named in the lawsuit. Like OJ Simpson with some luck and team of good expensive lawyers you might get off on criminal charges. But you probably won’t be so lucky on the civil suit which is sure to follow where the bar to prove neglect / culpability is much lower.

In short you can't hide behind an apprenticeship. If you sign something you are taking full responsibility for whatever that document says.

[Taiser]

Agree with the signature significance, but I don't remember ever signing anything as an apprentice. All I got was a check sheet with actual boxes to put check marks in when the task was done, handed that in for review, the actual work was looked at and then the guy with a license signed everything . Haven't been in the field for quite a while though, do apprentices have to sign anything now-a-days?

[helicopterray]

An apprentice can sign off an elementary task that he/she has been specifically checked out on.
There will be a list of elementary tasks with a spot for a signature for the AME with ACA that checked out the apprentice on how to carry out that task.
The QA department will have that on file.

Elementary tasks are not maintenance.
Only an AME can certify maintenance.

[helicopterray]

And by the way, CARS 625 Appendix A is the list of items that are classified as 'elementary tasks'.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... a-2458.htm

[crazy_aviator]

Your chicken scratch on the RH column of an inspection sheet constitutes your Abbreviated signature and the work done or inspection done on that line is YOUR liability. If an apprentices signs, they can be wholly or partly liable and the AME signing the inspection off can be partly or fully liable. Thats my take on it

[DonutHole]

What about the work being 'supervised' by the licensed signatory? Does this requirement absolve responsibility since the work is supposed to be directly supervised by the senior AME?

[bring me the horizon]

566.03(4)(e)(iv) Proof of having completed aircraft maintenance tasks shall take the form of a certification by the AME, or equivalent person who supervised the work.

and (e) (ii) Each maintenance task claimed shall have been: (A) subject to a maintenance release pursuant to CAR 571.10, or an equivalent civil aviation maintenance certification under the rules of a contracting state; or…

So, the way I see this is that the person signing the maintenance release is fully liable.

At the AMO I work at, I hold an ICC authority as an apprentice for dualing others work (safetying and locking of engine and/or flight controls). My signature appears in the journey log and technical records for the work preformed so technically if anything were to happen it would partially or fully come back to me.

Same with an ACA or SCA…that legally binding contract you sign by saying “The described maintenance has been performed in accordance with the applicable airworthiness requirements.” is your bread and butter.

[LousyFisherman]

By definition an apprentice cannot be civilly or criminally liable for the work for which he/she is being trained. This is because he/she is not qualified and is therefore legally incompetent. The supervising tradesperson is responsible for everything.

Since elementary maintenance does not have to be performed by an AME I would assume an apprentice could be liable for screwing that up. In this case it would not matter who signed, but who did the work.

And, if it is a serious question or worry, ask a labour lawyer.

LF

[kevinsky18]

I agree with the above but here's the rub.

Either you are entitled to sign something off. If so you are liable for that task preformed.

Or

You are not qualified to sign something off as you are an apprentice and the task requires a fully licensed AME. In this case you cannot sign anything. If you sign the document then you are guilty of fraud. You've signed a document which you were not qualified to do so.

So in short. When you sign something no matter what there are consequences and liabilities.

Here's a different example from a different profession.

If you are a fully licensed doctor and you sign a prescription and your patient dies then you are liable for malpractice. Your insurance company will have to pay out but you may not go to jail if it can be shown it was a genuine mistake.

If you are not a licensed doctor and you sign a prescription and someone dies then you have committed an illegal / criminal act by impersonating a doctor and you will definitely go to jail.

In the case of the OP he faces far more liability and possibility of criminal charges by signing a maintenance release as an apprentice (someone not qualified to do so) than he would as a licensed AME.

Again a signature is not your name, a signature is your sworn statement. Liability is directly attached to it no matter how many ways you try and twist it. The only way to avoid liability in this situation is to not sign the maintenance release.

[Heliian]

No liability whatsoever for an apprentice. (unless it was intentional sabotage)

An apprentice does not sign any type of release.

The AME holds the responsibility when signing the release.

The release by the AME includes all the work done, no matter by whom, even another engineer..

Your initials on a check sheet are there just to show that the task was done, could be anyone, the release certifies the a/c.


Elementary work and servicing is NOT a release.

[crazy_aviator]

Scenario,

What if an apprentice signs off 7 items on a checklist for an annual,,, he has done many annuals and has been with the company for 4 yrs as an apprentice, but is dragging his butt as far as getting his licence. Aircraft crashes, apprentice admits he didnt do the items he signed for, the Overseeing AME did supervise all other work that he did ,,,, dont you folks think that the apprentice is going to share in the blame ( negligence,pergery,fraud etc ) ?

[Heliian]

CARS 571 holds a lot of good info, from 571.11:

(6) If a maintenance release is signed by a person in respect of work performed by another person, the person signing the maintenance release must personally observe the work to the extent necessary to ensure that it is performed in accordance with the requirements of any applicable standards of airworthiness and, specifically, the requirements of sections 571.02 and 571.10.
(amended 2000/12/01; previous version)

But yes, if the apprentice in your case admits to falsifying records I'm sure he could hold some of the blame but the catch-all in the end is the one who signs the release.

[Heliian]

As for the worst case scenario, do we know what ever happened to the cleaner that covered the static ports on a large jet or the technician that accidentally introduced water into a helicopter fuel system vent while trying to clear an engine pan drain? In these cases, there wasn't any maintenance done though.

Those who hold an AME licence and have signed a maintenance release understand the risks and liability that comes with it. In comparison, an apprentice holds none of that.