I'm curious whether the pilot was wearing his shoulder harness, considering the intact appearance the the cockpit.
If you look closely, you will see a small hardwood tree that impaled the Capt`s cockpit door. I would hazard a guess that had something to do with why he didnt make it while all the others did with relatively minor injuries.
My most sincere condolences to the entire Gogal family. They run a good little operation and are very decent people.
yukon bound wrote:was told their chieften left snow lake Vfr just prior to the van,any idea if the pa 31-350 was Vfr or Ifr.I know they are only a Vfr company.
If their AOC says Day/VFR then that would mean if the PA31-350 filed IFR, he was breaking the regs. Day/VFR means Day/VFR period. I would presume the PA31 didnt blatently file an IFR flight plan, contrary to his companies AOC that does not allow him/her to. That would be kind of ridiculous wouldnt it?
I dont know for a fact if the PA31 filed VFR or IFR, but you would think that being a DAY/VFR AOC would mean he/she filed VFR. If they did file IFR, there will be a whole other investigation into this event as well, and likely a suspended AOC (at least in the short term).
ragbagflyer wrote:I think that tree is just in front of the door, not impaling it.
That could very well be true. These old eyes cant see that closely...but this is a speculation thread and that skinny tree really did catch my eye. Spring and fall hardwood can be very unforgiving in a crash. Its one possible explanation why the pilot didnt make it (with most of the left side of the cockpit reasonably in tact), while everyone else did make it with reasonably minor injuries?
flyinthebug wrote:Its one possible explanation why the pilot didnt make it (with most of the left side of the cockpit reasonably in tact), while everyone else did make it with reasonably minor injuries?
I also was lucky enough to spend a couple seasons in Snow Lake several years ago with the Gogals. These are genuinely great people. Honest, hard working, family folks, who took me into their homes and treated me as one of their own. I learned a lot from Larry, Mark and Brad.
May peace and comfort eventually find all of Mark's family and friends.
From what I see, looks like there's some ice on the vertical plan. She's no better in icing i guess than she was years ago when i flew it....
Wouldn't be surprised if it'd be the reason. Sad to see it took another life. Such a good plane when not involved in icing, again if it is the reason why.
There is a large amount of operators in NW Ontario & Manitoba that fly on VFR flight plans/intins but fly in complete IMC and shoot approaches all day long. The ones I have in mind are not Gogal as I have no knowledge of them, but they range from small one or two plane operators, to the larger airlines. It has become such a precedent that junior pilots flying single engine vfr aircraft are now flying IMC all day. Some even in icing without any icing equipment. They do this even in and out of control zones by just lying to FSS. Wether this is what the pilot was doing I have no idea, but I blame the TC regional investigators for just looking at paperwork these days and not observing planes at work in the north.
Kzanol wrote:There is a large amount of operators in NW Ontario & Manitoba that fly on VFR flight plans/intins but fly in complete IMC and shoot approaches all day long. The ones I have in mind are not Gogal as I have no knowledge of them, but they range from small one or two plane operators, to the larger airlines. It has become such a precedent that junior pilots flying single engine vfr aircraft are now flying IMC all day. Some even in icing without any icing equipment. They do this even in and out of control zones by just lying to FSS. Wether this is what the pilot was doing I have no idea, but I blame the TC regional investigators for just looking at paperwork these days and not observing planes at work in the north.
I can vouch for this. Without naming names (the pilot and I have both moved on, and the operator is out of business), I've watched guys call final while "VFR", then pop out of cloud 1000' off the centerline abreast the threshold. Lined up to land on me in the tower. And then tell me he's decided he's circling for the opposite runway. This was (unfortunately) not the stupidest thing I witnessed while working in Thompson.
A 200 hour wonder departing in a Cessna 206 that wasn't equipped for IFR with 50' ceilings was. Somehow that genius didn't kill himself.
flyinthebug wrote:Its one possible explanation why the pilot didnt make it (with most of the left side of the cockpit reasonably in tact), while everyone else did make it with reasonably minor injuries?
Pilot incapacitation is another.
Possible, but a pretty young pilot.
It doesn't seem like a particularly high g impact.
Anyways, I expect if it were something like that, we'll hear from the passengers.
Even if it was "bullshit vfr", explain me this... How can it be that a guy who's been flying the caravan almost every day for the last 2 years (AT LEAST) can't last less than 2 kms in it. Nope, it's gotta be something else. Angle of the cut in the trees suggest good forward motion. I don't see any ice on the vertical stab. Mark wouldn't have done this, he's cancelled flights in the past for more than this...
I think that impact may have been harder than some people are thinking, considering the way the hot plate has broke in half, and the broken seat in the second shot.
"Minor injuries" being reported in the media just means not life threatening. I know of one fellow who had surgery on his back Monday. Sounds like they hit pretty hard.
Most of the damage you will see, including to the seats, in that second picture will be from evacuating the passengers.
The cabin doesn't need to be beat up for passengers to have fatal injuries. I have heard of an accident where a C206 crashed with a high rate of descent. The G forces were high enough to rip the arteries from the heart, meanwhile the cabin remain remarkably intact.
I'm interested to see if the plane was under power or not. Low level VFR trying to avoid the clouds and ingesting a bird is not too far fetched. Nor is a engine just quitting.
Loss of control in IMC would usually have a more vertical impact would it not?
lilflyboy262 wrote:The cabin doesn't need to be beat up for passengers to have fatal injuries. I have heard of an accident where a C206 crashed with a high rate of descent. The G forces were high enough to rip the arteries from the heart, meanwhile the cabin remain remarkably intact.
Hell, ignore aircraft, look at cars. Take any big boat from the 60's and early 70's, you know, before they came up with the idea of crumple zones. Car crashes, looks fine, but everyone inside is salsa.
Looking at the weather today, I wonder how many are out there "pushing" to get the job done. Our guys all stayed home.
All this talk about fatal injuries. Don't "push"....it can really be that easy.
lilflyboy262 wrote:Loss of control in IMC would usually have a more vertical impact would it not?
Right. There's a photo #03 on the TSB preliminary page (the "rear view") not listed here, ... a bit more revealing as to approx distance of stoppage after impact and also captures an idea of an impact angle - from signs of clipped trees - fairly steep but far from vertical.
May not be an issue here, but I'd like to remind guys to remember to wear their shoulder straps. Too many people have been killed in survivable accidents due to a bump on the head.
Cloudhumper wrote:May not be an issue here, but I'd like to remind guys to remember to wear their shoulder straps. Too many people have been killed in survivable accidents due to a bump on the head.
Flight helmets do work for those bumps on the head....
