Ice Pilots Started

[Diadem]

The dates just don't add up. Almost looks like they are using bits shot over 18 months ago.

The episode with the river shuttle, in which Scott has such a busy schedule, includes scenes from the charter to Cambridge Bay. The river shuttle took place at the end of November or beginning of December, but the stuff shot in Cam Bay shows just a smattering of snow and plenty of daylight. I was there in the middle of November last year, and there was a hell of a lot more snow than that at the time, so they must have filmed that part at least a month before the river shuttle portions. I can't imagine they have very much footage that's worth actually putting on TV, so they seem to splice portions together from different time periods to make a single episode. I noticed similar things in the first episode this season.

[floatpilot]

Ice Road Fuckers is also a year old by the time we get to see it too BTW.

thought there were ice roads in july

[FlyGy]

Ice Road Fuckers is also a year old by the time we get to see it too BTW.

thought there were ice roads in july

I'm not surprised.

[cheeky cough]

Yes, Arnie was a good guy from Saskatchewan.
When he came back to see Joe, it just seemed like
Joe could give a fu$@.
Remember that flying is just a job and not your life.
Airline companies are NOT your family.
Take time to smell the roses once in awhile.
A lot of pilots are passing too early these days.

[imarai]

A job is your life, most of it anyway, and you spend more time at it than with your family. If you do something, anything, that occupies 1/2 of your waking life, and it provides an income so you can live, then yes, it is your life, and a major part of it. People's identity is also wrapped up in their careers, so it presumptuous to say that flying (or any other career) is not your life. Imagine asking . Yeager, or Bob Hoover, if flying is his life, and he replied, "Ah..., no, flying is not my life, my life is playing handball at the YMCA twice a week for one hour".

[longjon]

off topic from Ice pilots but in reply to the last post,what you said may apply in N. America and you personally but not all cultures.
I was asked what I did and replied, Im a Engineer/Pilot, the host said yes, but what do you DO.
Flying is your job , what do you do as a person. took a while to understand but I get it, do you?

[FlyGy]

Yeah, I had one of those motivational jackasses try telling me that too. When he asked what I do I told him...and when he figured he had me trapped and revealed the "epiphany" I told him no, my job defines my lifestyle , how I interact with my family, and with friends. While I'm not at work I'm still doing things related to work. I'm on the forums, I do research, and after hours work.

My job is not just what I do...it's what I am.

[PistonPounder2800]

I think he was asking what your hobbies and interests are. I would want to blow my brains out if I had a three day pairing with a guy who said flying defines who he is, there have got to be better ways to spend your time than to fly all day and then run to the avcanada website followed up by some microsoft flight sim. To each their own i guess, isnt this forum about ice pilots by the way?

[wan2fly99]

My post has been hijacked. Started it to just talk a bit about Arnie who I though must have been a great guy to fly with and to learn from.

When I saw him in last weeks episode and knowing he had actually passed away as I said kind of touched my heart. Guess I'm getting old

[Adiabatic]

Spoiler Alert!

Some parts of the episode tonight was re-enacted! Imagine that! A bunch of stuff in the cockpit.
Going to go watch it with the crew. I haven't seen the episode yet.
Aim any questions you have to me and i'll try to answer them the best I can.

AB

[Taiser]

Cool! It would be nice to have a fly on the wall to separate the bullshit we see on the show!

[wan2fly99]

saw Electra show last night.

Nice job the crew did.

I believe the pilot first flying made a good choice to let the more experience person do the landing.

Did they repair that aircraft or was it written off for parts

Did Ray retire after ? He seemed to be another very good person who had years of flying experience to share with the younger pilots

[Skymark]

To Sean and the crew, nice job....

How much needed to be "re-enacted"? Where there cameras on the aircraft when the landing actually happened?

[Lowjack]

saw Electra show last night.

Nice job the crew did.

I believe the pilot first flying made a good choice to let the more experience person do the landing.

Did they repair that aircraft or was it written off for parts

Did Ray retire after ? He seemed to be another very good person who had years of flying experience to share with the younger pilots

I believe the Electra found its way down to Buffalo's place in Red Deer to be repaired. Could have sworn I saw some pictures of it in a hangar there on flickr.

[Morav]

Great job to the crew for keeping calm heads.
NICE FLYING Ray!

[godsrcrazy]

[quote="Skymark"]To Sean and the crew, nice job....

How much needed to be "re-enacted"? Where there cameras on the aircraft when the landing actually happened?[/quote

That is an interesting question. If memory serves me correct. There was about of controversy in the News about this last year as Buffalo said there was less people on board then the airport people said they witnessed getting off the plane.

[up and down]

Good episode! Nice work Ray! Top notch flying... Too bad you had to retire

[LuckyPilot]

Flew with Ray back in my early days in my career, what a great guy to fly with, taught me a lot about how to treat people, what was important, and what wasn't.
If this was staged, at least the cockpit portion, then they should all be nominated for Oscar's. Good airmanship, great CRM, above average flying skills demonstrated, no Monday morning quarterbacking going on here, the final out come speaks volumes to how this crew handled it.

[Taiser]

I'm thinking some of the cockpit stuff was filmed in real time...there was some serious worry going on in there! Great job from the crew, especially landing on 2 gear, vs belly...they saved Joe a TON of money with that move!

[Adiabatic]

Skymark-After we switched seats , the cameras were either turned off or ran out of battery. All of the cockpit stuff after that was re-enacted or footage split in. I.E. close up facial shots, and even some shots with the dialogue. We did this probably about 2 weeks after the accident. The Omni film crew did a great job putting it all together, I was surely re-living the experience again.

wan2fly99-I couldn't give an answer right away to Ray about switching seats and him doing the landing. It was the right choice the crew made to switch. I didn't want to ask someone else to do it thats for sure.

Spolier Alert - Ray did retire at the end of April or Early May. I wasn't there unfortunately for his last flight cause I was away learning.
Since I do not work there anymore, I don't have access to information as often as I used to.
As far as I know BAQ is being flown back up to YK next week.

SAB

[Duffman]

Adiabatic, I have enjoyed reading your posts so far. It's interesting to get a real perspective on a sometimes not so real reality show.

I'm just wondering how you and the rest of the crew felt about doing the re-enactment? I'm not sure I would have been willing to do it if I was in your shoes.

You probably don't want to disclose your new employer but just wondering if you stuck with a YK company?

[Adiabatic]

You know what, I found it kind of therapeutic being in the cockpit with Ray and Lubi and talking/going over it again. I can't speak for the other guys, but we all took part in it. A little liquid compensation helped. If someone had gotten hurt I would have a different perspective on taking part. Thank goodness we all walked out of there.

Still in YK! Flying white airplanes.

[SeptRepair]

This is not a slam but an honest question. The SOP on the check list for a stuck gear, was all gear up belly landing. I read time and time again all the critics here talking about pilots not following checklists and "winging it" essentially ignoring the procedures clearly laid out in front of them. In this instant they choose to ignore the checklist and do their own thing all for the sake of money ( meaning they wanted to save 2 out of 4 engines). Was there more talk in the cockpit of the options other than trying to save the aircraft? Did you discuss the possibility of the aircraft losing control more, then if the gear was all up? Im not sure how easy it was to determine how far the gear was stuck down, but in my mind a partially stuck down gear would have more of a chance of digging in then a smooth belly. Was there more decisive factors I'm missing? Regardless the best possible outcome was achieved and you all walked away unharmed, which is what really matters.

[flyinhigh]

I believe that if you go and watch it again the check said "preferred method" is belly up.


When you have a emergency situation, you rely on your experience to get you out of it, not a check
list. Is belly up better, Yes under certain conditions. Is landing the way it was done better, yes under certain conditions.

What we saw was a bastardized 1 hour episode that the network deemed most rating proof, they flew
500 miles in that condition, believe me the belly up topic would have come up.

Take miracle on the Hudson, the check list for ditching calls for do the cabin. Sully didn't do this and
They figure that is what saved everyone, by not opening the valves water couldn't come in. Do you think the checklist though of that. No EVERY situation is different, you must rely on your own knowledge as well as other factors to come up with the decision.

After watching what i say on TV I can saw that I'd be honored to have you as my FO Sean:)

[Adiabatic]

Thank You

It was discussed in detail why we were choosing to use the gear that we had. The old Ansett manual I have says to do a belly landing, as well as our QRH that was imported from Amerer Air of Austria. I am assuming that this is what Lockheed had approved. I can see that doing a belly landing you are going to have less of a chance of the airplane going off in the direction of the failed gear, going into ditches, signs, etc. If it was a belly landing it would have had a better chance of keeping straight and in the confines of the runway. However, the belly landing would have 'pretzelized' all of the props, the left side props/debris may have punctured the fuselage and probably the right side as well. What Ray, Lubi and I discussed was that we would only be damaging the engines and props on the right side if we left the rest of the gear down and possibly other parts as well. True, we did go off the runway into the snow, thankfully missing some runway lights and signs.
Was the emergency procedure outlined for a passenger service? It would be nice to see what Lockheed would say. I haven't seen Airspray's procedure, and am curious to do so.
As for safety for passengers, if the airplane was full of them years ago, the belly landing would have been the safest, we agreed on that.
When we started operating the airplane, we had 6 experienced Electra/Aurora crew members sitting around going through the whole QRH. The exact one main gear unsafe situation came up and was discussed. We as crew performed what was discussed that day. If I am right, we can add to the emergency procedures provided by the manufacturer, but not remove.

Ansett says "If possible, retract gear and make belly landing, if unable to do so, then:" ----< DATED 7/77
It continues to basically say keep wing up with aileron, maintain directional control, don't use reverse on good side, call for impact drill
Buffalo SOP says
"Retract gear and make belly landing, if possible"
If unable, proceed as follows
-Fly approach with 100% flap
-Land slightly faster than normal
-Hold wing up with aileron
-Hold heading with nose wheel steering
-Do not use reverse
After wing settles and aircraft is on 3 points, accomplish the following
-E-Handles (all four) - PULL
-HRD Buttons (all four) - DISCHARGE
-Battery Switch - OFF
-When Aircraft Stops - EVACUATE"

So what does the phrase "if possible" mean?
Is it ->if you can get the rest of the gear up, then do the belly landing?
Or is it -> if its possible to pay to fix the aircraft/deal with the lost revenue the airplane generates.

If we performed the belly landing, we wouldn't have been able to rob the good engine off of BAQ and put it on LBA to continue working.
I do not work there anymore. It would be interesting to hear what people think about the interpretation of the emergency procedure.

SAB