I hate rivnuts

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:44 pm

I really do. Honestly, does it really take that
long to drill the two little farken holes for the
nutplate and squeeze a couple of tiny rivets?!

There. I feel much better now.

Carry on,

Bent wrench · Post by **Bent wrench** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:03 pm

I agree Fawk rivnuts and lazy people

Bent wrench · Post by **Bent wrench** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:05 pm

I as well feel better!

bring me the horizon · Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:01 pm

...I have no beef with the rivnuts. I find them quite useful when fastening together interior panels which otherwise would make tethering an anchor nut or similar difficult to impossible. It's basically a blind riveted nut.

Do you all hate Cherry max rivets as well?

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:09 pm

Cherry Max rivets are the spawn of the Devil.

Well ok, maybe not that bad. They're expensive,
and lazy people often use them even when they
have easy access to the other side, which grinds
my gears.

Is it really that hard to buck a rivet? They're so
cheap and simple, and so easy to drill out.

Taiser · Post by **Taiser** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:30 pm

HEY HEY HEY!!! Don't be dissing the Cherries! My entire homebuilt is built with Avex (cherry like) rivets!!!

Pavese · Post by **Pavese** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:55 pm

Taiser wrote:HEY HEY HEY!!! Don't be dissing the Cherries! My entire homebuilt is built with Avex (cherry like) rivets!!!

+1 And they're blind rivets, not pop rivets!

The rivnuts keep the price of your airplane lower. Much as I like the elegance of a nut plate, I understand the need for value judgements to manage sticker shock

BTW, I hate when rivnuts spin but I also can call on the experience of my favorite AME to make all well again!

D

crazy_aviator · Post by **crazy_aviator** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:35 pm

After having owned over a half dozen CH 200-250-300 aircraft, BRITISH avex rivets are OKAY for this AME. I agree that Rivnuts and CHERRY rivets used when access is sufficient for the experienced AME to install is FOOLISNESS

Valkyrie_XB70 · Post by **Valkyrie_XB70** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:31 pm

Long as the rivnut is installed correctly (a small notch is cut into the hole prior to squeezing) I don't mind them that much. When people don't do that the rivnut will eventually begin to spin when removing the screw....that grinds my gears.

CamAero · Post by **CamAero** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:18 pm

I always cut the notch and usually glue them in with JB Weld as well.

iflyforpie · Post by **iflyforpie** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:52 pm

I don't have any problems with rivnuts; I have problems with people who don't install and use them properly.

If you don't drill the hole, cut the notch, and squeeze it properly (with all of the threads engaged into the tool), it won't work very well.

If you are using structural hardware or tightening it within an inch of its life, it won't work very well either. The same thing in reverse happens when you use non-structural fasteners on locking steel anchor nuts... ....have fun drilling them all out. JB Weld not only encourages people to over tighten, but makes it real fun to remove. Rivnuts should never be used for structural purposes and really only should have the screw tightened about a 1/4 turn from snug.

It is possible to install anchor nuts blind in place of rivnuts... but the hole isn't going to be any smaller even with low profile anchor nuts, it is going to be a lot more time consuming as you fish each one through and position it with lockwire... and it is still going to be held in by junk 3/32 CCR rivets that the first knuckle dragger with a screw gun is going to destroy.

CID · Post by **CID** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:54 pm

I avoid rivnuts whenever possible and certainly when attachment really matters. One of the biggest problems is the use of steel screws in aluminum alloy rivnuts. They wear the threads after just a couple of uses. This doesn't apply to the steel rivnuts like the ones used to hold the seat track down in an RJ. Those things are great.

GyvAir · Post by **GyvAir** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:37 pm

iflyforpie wrote:I don't have any problems with rivnuts; I have problems with people who don't install and use them properly.

+1

They have their places, but those places are few.
If there's going to be any side-loading/prying/fighting at all as you install screws into them, they're not going to last and you're going to be cursing the idiot that put them there. They're for light installations that get installed and just stay there; not something that's going to come out for regular access, inspection or servicing.

Not all rivnuts have a key on them for a notch, by the way. (In case anyone's reading this thread and looking at a keyless rivnut, wondering what gives?)

An alternative I've used with better success is Nutserts. It's still not an anchor nut, but it sure beats an aluminum rivnut in many applications.

bring me the horizon · Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:22 pm

How about well nuts? When those brass inserts cross thread with the steel screws and the whole fricking thing will just spin in it’s bolt hole

. I have actually never found these things very practical unless it’s anchored to fiber-glass or honeycomb structure and again, for very light applications.

The only advantage to well nuts is that they come out pretty easy when you’re fed up with them. Just pull ‘em out with some duckbills and a healthy grunt.

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:29 am

(threadjack)

My entire homebuilt is built with Avex rivets

If so, I might suggest reading this:

www.pittspecials.com/articles/MurphyRebel.htm

which is what I learned about pop rivets in aerodynamically
critical areas. Might help.

Taiser · Post by **Taiser** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:00 pm

Nice article, don't apply much on my plane. Takes off in 100' with a stall of less than 30 mph and climbs like a mountain goat! I'm also installing the vortex generators. Compared to the rebel, my wing is insanely fat so lift is never an issue anyways, in fact the 750 is so "dirty" even if I flushed all the rivets on the wings I don't think I'd get more than a few knots speed anyways. I pay the price by it not being a speed demon, but I don't need it to be!

iflyforpie · Post by **iflyforpie** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:49 pm

I'm wondering if the stalling issue you were having was more of a washout issue than pop rivets CS? A few tweaks to each jury strut might have been all it needed.

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:58 pm

a washout issue

Maybe, but the ailerons didn't seem to have any
unpleasant behaviour. And, more than one Murphy
Rebel had the exact same problem. Mind you,
maybe the build instructions don't have the correct
rigging numbers.

The engineering on a lot of homebuilts is a bit
underwhelming. As it is one some certified aircraft,
I might hasten to add.

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:23 am

I once heard an old story about Cessna and flush rivets vs standard solid round top rivets.
As the story goes they built and entire 172 wing with flush rivets and test flew it. Then every rivet had a freeze dried split pea super glued over it. The aircraft was test flown again and again, between every flight a row (root to tip) of peas was removed.
Eventually a balance point of stall characteristics vs airspeed vs cost of install was reached, setting the standard for the leading edge and 1/3 or so of the wing to be flush riveted.

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