Becoming an ATC

[NickST]

I am seriously thinking about pursuing this career and have a few questions / inquiries about the best way to get all the training and requirements fulfilled.

When doing research on how to meet all requirements for the job I found this page: http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/qc/j ... 2272.shtml

The requirements section said this:
-employers require a minimum of a secondary school diploma (DES).
-A vocational diploma (DEP) in flight dispatching (formerly DEP in aviation information) is a significant asset for positions as flight dispatchers and flight service specialists.
-In addition, air traffic controllers must hold an air traffic controller licence. Controllers and flight service specialists must pass examinations set by Transport Canada.

After more searching I found out there is a course to take (to satisfy the flight dispatching DEP requirement) that used to be offered by York University (currently attending this school in a program I want out of) and offered at Air Georgian.
I found the course listing here: http://www.airgeorgian.ca/training/cour ... edule.html

After more reading I was directed towards http://www.navcanada.ca/ (which was also mentioned in the initial link as a resource)

It seems the best option would be to apply through navcanada and go through the 6 step program
Apply Online -> Complete Online Tests -> Participate in an Assessment Session - > Interviews -> Enter Candidate Roster -> Offer and Course Preparation.

This route does not seem to mention the course offered by Air Georgian being necessary or an asset, is this correct or am I missing something?

Lastly I have also seen to purchase Air Traffic Control Career Prep by Patrick Mattson and understand it thoroughly before embarking in ATC training.

TLDR: Looking for the most effective and efficient route to be fully qualified and trained for a career as an Air Traffic controller.

additional info: I am 21 years old, located in the greater Toronto area and I have the time and the money to be able to take all the required training without any interruption or other requirements.

[grimey]

I'm unaware of anyone who took a dispatcher course prior to becoming an FSS or ATC. It is NOT required, at all. It probably wouldn't hurt, but if you want to be an FSS, apply to Nav Can. They'll assume you're starting with nothing more than an interest in aviation, and train you completely. Same with ATC, Nav Canada will train you to get your license. You need a good work ethic, strong study habits, and an ability to work under pressure an accept that you'll make mistakes in the beginning. Not an additional course from outside the company.

A dispatcher course may help with the initial selection process, but it's not worth it if you don't already have it. I won't get into how retarded it would be to go to Embry-Riddle, pay a shitload in tuition, and then have to apply to Nav Can, pay more in tuition, and undergo more training, rather than just applying directly to Nav Can.

[BOOMER_12]

Hey Nick, you have two choices here.

1) Become flight dispatch. For that, you need to pass a couple of exams at Transport Canada. For these, you can take preparation at York U,Air Georgian or a few others. As a flight dispatch, you'll work for the airline companies.

2) Become an ATC (FSS, VFR or IFR). For that, you need to apply directly at NavCan. The exams to get in are cognitive. Therefore, you do not need any formation to take them. Either you have what they are looking for or you don't. Once you're selected, they will give you the proper training.

If you want to become an ATC, don't waste your money... enlist for the next exam at NavCan.

Best of luck.

[NAT2]

A dispatcher course may help with the initial selection process, but it's not worth it if you don't already have it. I won't get into how retarded it would be to go to Embry-Riddle, pay a shitload in tuition, and then have to apply to Nav Can, pay more in tuition, and undergo more training, rather than just applying directly to Nav Can.

Actually the Embry Riddle ATC training may even hurt you more than it helps you. I found that they want you coming in with a fresh slate, not having to erase other practices or notions you may already have.

If you wanted to work for the FAA and were a US citizen I would recommend the ERAU program for sure. I've had a lot of friends go through it with great success, otherwise, I defer to Grimey; save your money.

[NickST]

Thanks for all the responses, so It looks like I will be applying through https://takecharge.navcanada.ca/en/.

If anyone could give provide me more detailed information on the steps listed here https://takecharge.navcanada.ca/en/cont ... ng/process , such as what is involved in the online tests, if there is anything I can do to prepare for that as well as the assessments and interviews to follow.

time frames in between steps would be nice to know as well.

[TheJudge]

Thanks for all the responses, so It looks like I will be applying through https://takecharge.navcanada.ca/en/.

If anyone could give provide me more detailed information on the steps listed here https://takecharge.navcanada.ca/en/cont ... ng/process , such as what is involved in the online tests, if there is anything I can do to prepare for that as well as the assessments and interviews to follow.

time frames in between steps would be nice to know as well.

I'll give you some info based on my experiences, if you want more info just search through some of the many other threads here

It all starts with an application. Fill it out, be detailed, and take the time to write a solid answer to the why you want to be an ATC question.

After the application you have immediate access to two tests. A personality test, and an aptitude test. The aptitude test is similar to an IQ test, you cannot really study for it. The personality test is just like it sounds. Just do your best and be honest is the only advise I really have for these.

After the tests, you will get either green or red lights. Green means you are now eligible to receive an invite to the in person testing (note: this does not guarantee an invite, just puts you in the eligible pool). Red means that you were unsuccessful.

The in person testing is several hours long, and tests a large number of areas. It also cannot really be studied for, as it tests aptitude and ability. However, it wouldn't hurt to brush up on basic skills like mental math. I did a large number of online IQ / intelligence / brain teaser style tests prior to writing this. I found that it helped. Once again green means you are in the pool for an over the phone interview, red means thanks for coming out.

After successfully completing the phone interview, you are placed in a pool for the in person interview.

If you were successful all the way through, you go into a pool that may be offered a training spot (once again, green light is no guarantee of an offer).

It can be a very long process, and you often sit in the dark wondering if they are gonna call you for the next step or not. It took approximately 2 and a half years from when I first applied to receiving a training offer. Some people get through much quicker. It partly depends on luck / timing - obviously they can't call you for an in person testing session if they aren't running any.

The training itself is very intense and challenging, you need to go in completely committed. Additionally there are no guarantees until (if) you earn your license.

Hope that helped, let me know if you have any questions.

[grimey]

I did the testing/training for FSS 9 years ago, so my memory of exactly what it was is fuzzy. There are others here who've taken it far more recently who can fill you in. Do the online samples if they're still available, and get a good night's rest. It's an aptitude test, so as long as you're familiar with it, and well rested, studying won't really help. Do the examples so that you're aware of how the tests work, but that's all the prep you really need.

[NickST]

Thanks again for all the helpful responses, so I will be applying some time on the 11th or 12th.

I believe I would enjoy Airport ATC more then Area ATC so I would like to go down that path. Anyone have any pro's & con's of either whether you are in the field or know someone in the field?

[grimey]

The initial training for all 3 jobs (IFR controller, VFR controller, and FSS) is fairly difficult, with IFR being the hardest, and FSS and VFR somewhat easier. The checkout rate for IFR once you get on the floor is, well, very low. Don't buy into the "oh, they're protecting their jobs so they fail people" bullshit, it's just that the job is very demanding and isn't error-tolerant. The checkout rate for VFR is quite a bit better, and I'd guess that about 90% of people who get to an FSS site check out. I don't know about the FIC training, or if they still take people from initial training at all. With VFR and FSS, you're in a tower (or at least in a room with a view), but you're often in a smaller city or fairly small town, in the middle of nowhere. If you get an IFR or FIC position, you'll be in a fairly major city, but you won't get the view. You'll have 5-15 coworkers at a tower or FSS (though probably more at places like YYZ, I don't know), the FICs and ACCs are quite a bit bigger.

[Shadowfax]

Just to clarify, ATC means Air Traffic Control and is exclusive to IFR or VFR control - not FSS. FSS, while a valuable part of the ANS system is not Air Traffic Control. It means Flight Service Specialist or Flight Service Station - not an ATC Tower. Completely different jobs, requirements and career options.

[NickST]

So I did the essay question and personality test today, and on the last question of the personality test my answer changed when the submit pop up came up as there was a delay between anything happening so I clicked elsewhere on the popup but it disappeared and I clicked on a different answer, then the pop up appeared 2 more times and the window closed...

When I go to re launch it however it does say completed and on the main page the personality test is pending, is this correct or should it have automatically given me the ability to do the cognitive test next?

[kevenv]

So I did the essay question and personality test today, and on the last question of the personality test my answer changed when the submit pop up came up as there was a delay between anything happening so I clicked elsewhere on the popup but it disappeared and I clicked on a different answer, then the pop up appeared 2 more times and the window closed...

When I go to re launch it however it does say completed and on the main page the personality test is pending, is this correct or should it have automatically given me the ability to do the cognitive test next?

An essay question? Seriously?

[TheJudge]

So I did the essay question and personality test today, and on the last question of the personality test my answer changed when the submit pop up came up as there was a delay between anything happening so I clicked elsewhere on the popup but it disappeared and I clicked on a different answer, then the pop up appeared 2 more times and the window closed...

When I go to re launch it however it does say completed and on the main page the personality test is pending, is this correct or should it have automatically given me the ability to do the cognitive test next?

It may have changed since I did the testing, but I believe that the cognitive test and personality tests were both available immediately after the application when I went through.

[BOOMER_12]

You should send an email to Human Resources at NavCan. I had a similar problem when I registered and Johanne at NavCan made sure everything was OK with my application.

Better be safe than sorry as waiting a full year if an application is rejected can be very long...

[NickST]

I was going to call today so I left work early. It has now been completed however I did it on the 15th of December and it says the 17th of December completed. The cognitive ability test is now available as well. I think I may send of an email to confirm.

Edit: I did the cognitive ability test, got hung up on one question but still made it to 26 or 27, I should have just skipped it but I had tons of time at the half way point I thought I was good

I think I got 1-2 wrong + the ones I didn't answer.

Anyone know if this is good / bad / average, I understand it matters what other people testing around this time have done to but if any of you currently in the field remember how you did that would be great.

[CarbHeat]

I got to the last question (30?) but the timer ran out before I could move my pointer to "submit". So 29 for me with probably a couple wrong.

[FSS2552]

I'm unaware of anyone who took a dispatcher course prior to becoming an FSS or ATC. It is NOT required, at all. It probably wouldn't hurt, but if you want to be an FSS, apply to Nav Can. They'll assume you're starting with nothing more than an interest in aviation, and train you completely. Same with ATC, Nav Canada will train you to get your license. You need a good work ethic, strong study habits, and an ability to work under pressure an accept that you'll make mistakes in the beginning. Not an additional course from outside the company.

A dispatcher course may help with the initial selection process, but it's not worth it if you don't already have it. I won't get into how retarded it would be to go to Embry-Riddle, pay a shitload in tuition, and then have to apply to Nav Can, pay more in tuition, and undergo more training, rather than just applying directly to Nav Can.

+1

[FSS2552]

and I'd guess that about 90% of people who get to an FSS site check out.

Hmmm... not sure about that. I'd go with 60% since they closed Cornwall.

[grimey]

Hmmm... not sure about that. I'd go with 60% since they closed Cornwall.

OK, well it used to be that high. There were certainly some that flunked out of NCTI/TCTI, so the end result might not be much different. Is all the training done on site now, or is basic training given at or near the FICs?

[FSS2552]

they decided to centralize all the training in ACCs. Basic course at the ACC with sims and stuff, then you are sent to your site for on-job-training. courses are now of 4 to 6 ppl i've seen in ACCs since they don't have as much teachers they used to (1 or 2 now at each ACC). In the field qualification programs have been modified too. it means On job instructors are evaluating you in a more standardized manner (they say) accross all fss sites.

[KHills]

I got my training offer in the mail and it says the course will be between 4-6.5 months (for VFR). Does anyone know what variables factor into a shorter or longer course?

[FSS2552]

my wild guess is that it depends on what tower you'll be going. some sites may require longer training according to complexity.

[robshelle]

4-6.5 months is because there are variables during training. The Basic VFR course is the same across the country, it is when you goto the various towers that the training days change considerably. Some of the variables for the basic course can include stat holidays (If it's over Christmas, can expect to take a week off depending on the instructors), insructors health (if they get sick, you may be doing nothing for a few days), and the big one, course size. Usual courses nowadays are 4 students, however if one drops out just before the course starts, we may not be able to have enough time to get the spot filled with a back up student. (This happend to me when I was teaching my first VFR Basic course a couple of years ago) As soon as you lose someone, it will make the simulation portion run faster. Also, there are 3 sets of evals, and 3 exams that could be failed, and a student could be dropped out at any of these times. Also, the instructors want you to succeed, so if we feel that you are not quite ready for an eval, we will probably give you some extra simulation runs to help out.

Hope that helps.

Robbie Benusic
CYEG Tower

[MikeAndHike]

Hey Robbie, I am currently on Standby for the upcoming VFR course at YEG and am very excited for the opportunity. If you have any info specific to YEG that you could share I would greatly appreciate it. Feel free to pm me if you have time. If not, no worries. I am chewing through my ITA and am really enjoying it. Every block gets a little more complicated and yet a little easier to go through as my knowledge base is expanding. I can't wait for the real work to begin.

Mike

[NickST]

Hello,

Its been a while since I posted anything but I finished the online testing as of 12-18-2012 and there is a green check mark beside it, all the previous steps have the green checkmark as well and the ones that are all still required have the black question mark with nothing pending and I have not heard back since, is this normal?