Air Force

[Ronner]

you all should just steer clear of the cdn farce's. The regs arnt to bad they are mostly prof. the Rez on the other hand is just a cluster f*ck. Unless ur young and dumb just dont do it. Most ppl back when i joined that were over 27 did not stay long. I just cant explain how frustrating the CF is, its somtin just have 2 see with ur own eyes

I was trained how to use an M203 and lots of other stuff at the end of my cott.

If u need money and beifits cuz ur in the hurt locker or ur young and dumb then do it up

[Sunday Looper]

Wow Ronner, you sound just like the highly educated and motivated Officers the CF is looking for. Thanks for your enlightened and articulate response. I feel dumber for having read your post.

SL

[scotothedoublet]

I'm wondering about all the training you received "at the end of your cot", don't ask, don't tell I guess...not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Ronner]

wow a comment on a persons sexual orientation. aren't you grown up. y don't u go back to ur high school class and diss some people on your own level.

If ur going to run you mouth have some balls and do it to peoples face. Oh let me guess you were picked on as a kid now your out settle the score. Arguing on here is like wining the special olympics you still RETARDED

[scotothedoublet]

Simmer down dude, you're the one that said it. I was wondering what the hell you were talking about.

I was trained how to use an M203 and lots of other stuff at the end of my cott.

Don't worry, scotothedoublet doesn't judge. Go Ronner, you're awesome!

[hollywood]

I talked to a recruiter today and was trying to find out when anyone would be recieving job offers, and I was told Wed. May 4th. Also I found out they are only taking 21 pilots through ROTP (when they pay your college), and around 68 through DEO (when you already have a degree) this year.

[mcrit]

Quick Question, Is PFT the Slingsby at Protage or the Harvard2 at Moose Jaw? Also, would a 2500 hr ATPL qualify to bypas PFT?

[scotothedoublet]

PFT's in PP on the Slingsby, wouldn't count on the bypass unless you have an Aviation Diploma from one of the bigger Canadian schools. Had a bud who went to Embry-Riddle and didn't get the bypass.

[Pyleosnow]

I was wondering if anybody that has bypassed the pft could tell me how hard the transition to the military way of flying is going straight to the harvard?

[CH124 Driver]

I was wondering if anybody that has bypassed the pft could tell me how hard the transition to the military way of flying is going straight to the harvard?

I didn't find it that bad, the hardest part was thinking at twice the speed I had ever flown at but you quickly get used to it. The biggest thing is attitude anyway. If you go in there with an attitude, they'll eat you alive. The last thing that should even enter your mind is "well in college we did it this way". You just do what they ask, exactly how they tell you to do it and it's not too bad at all.

The military way of flying is all about precision. You need to know your aircraft inside out and you absolutely cannot accept errors in your flying. We do an emergency of the day, everyday. In Moose Jaw you do an emergency every met briefing (3 times a day), and you write out your critical memory items from the red pages every month. What I mean by precision is that you're constantly correcting to the ideal. Off by 20'? Fix it. 2kts fast? Fix it. If you're supposed to be flying at 220kts and 11,000' and you're not on the numbers, you better be working to get the numbers.

[mcrit]

On the subject of the bypass; I was told that if you had an ATPL you would get the PFT bypass.

[groundpilot]

I had an ATPL...no bypass. They don't care how many hours you have. You have to go to an accredited school.

[Hey___Pilot]

Hello

[CH124 Driver]

Hold on there.. Dont get tooo high on your horse about Mil flying being different. At one time you did not know how to do what you are doing now. Also, there are many civvy pilots which just dont fly people around either..... Flying is flying and each has its special abilities....

Not high on my horse, just stating that the stuff I know would still need to be taught to a civvie. I didn't know it as a civvie pilot, so there's no advantage to bringing in a Commercial pilot to fill a gap since they'd require just as much training as a brand new CF pilot off the pipe.

[Hey___Pilot]

Hello

[CH124 Driver]

Well I agree that mil flying and civ flying are different in some ways, but I think the suggestion was to use experienced comm pilots to fill where there was a need to fill. I do not think it would take that long to train a comm pilot in the mil world. I have done both and think it would be a great advantage to use the talent available in canada

That's where we disagree. When I was in Moose Jaw and in Portage on helo school, I saw experienced commercial pilots fail out. We're only talking about training here, let alone operational flying. I know that there are enough subtle differences that IMO, would make it quite difficult in some, if not most cases, to integrate a commercial pilot into an OTU and beyond. So what you're left with is sending them to Moose Jaw or Portage, in that case why not just stick to home grown where we know things are going to be done the way we want them?

I remember a guy that joined as a reserve helo pilot under the HELICOP program, or something to that effect. He came out to Portage for an assessment. I'm not sure how it worked out but you could definitely tell in the 2 weeks he was there that he lacked a lot of the skills we had learned in Moose Jaw and this guy had a CPL-H.

It's one example I know, but combined with the 1700hr guys failing PFT and a few other cases of commercial pilots failing in Moose Jaw, I came to the conclusion that I did. It wouldn't be a universal fix and it would still require Portage at least as a baseline. Woopee, we shaved a year off pilot training. That's not exactly going to fix any manning problems we have.

[hollywood]

Wow it took me over 8 months to get my contract sorted out, but at last it is done. Now im finishing my final year of my degree under the ROTP, then I get to possibly bypass some flight training. Wish I did this when I was 20, instead of going to Coastal Pacific aka waste of time and money.

[Bif]

The CF careers website currently asserts that: "The Air Force is currently hiring men and women with a university degree who want to become pilots. Qualified candidates can start their training immediately."

Yet, judging by several previous posts in this thread, I get the impression this may not exactly be the case. If one were to enlist now, pass the aptitude tests, and have a University degree), would it be unreasonable to expect the same type of delay as hollywood has experienced? Is it common to have to sit around waiting to be "called-up" after being accepted for training?

I ask because I am seriously considering the CF route as an alternative to civvie training here in Vancouver.

Also, if any of you former or current CF pilots have any advice/experience that you could share with me, a PM would be greatly appreciated

Thanks so much!

P.S. In case you're wondering, I'm a 22 year-old soon-to-be university grad (BSc. this spring). A career as a pilot is (and has been) my goal/dream for as long as I can remember, and I'm currently facing some big decisions about how to achieve that.

[mellow_pilot]

So are the Forces actually short? Cause the way training and recruiting is backed up, you'd think they were trying to keep people out!

[mellow_pilot]

The CF careers website currently asserts that: "The Air Force is currently hiring men and women with a university degree who want to become pilots. Qualified candidates can start their training immediately."

Yet, judging by several previous posts in this thread, I get the impression this may not exactly be the case. If one were to enlist now, pass the aptitude tests, and have a University degree), would it be unreasonable to expect the same type of delay as hollywood has experienced? Is it common to have to sit around waiting to be "called-up" after being accepted for training?

I ask because I am seriously considering the CF route as an alternative to civvie training here in Vancouver.

Also, if any of you former or current CF pilots have any advice/experience that you could share with me, a PM would be greatly appreciated

Thanks so much!

P.S. In case you're wondering, I'm a 22 year-old soon-to-be university grad (BSc. this spring). A career as a pilot is (and has been) my goal/dream for as long as I can remember, and I'm currently facing some big decisions about how to achieve that.

If you have the degree, bonus. It's alittle late for this year, but go into CFRC Vancouver and ask. Here's a tip though, call and setup a meeting with a recruiter. Don't just walk in and start asking questions at CFRC Vancouver, they'll just give you some forms and tell you to come back when they're done. (get forms off the net) Get an appointment with a recruiter and have a list of qusetions written down. Make it a long list, there is no telling when the next time they'll talk to you is and the website is very lacking in details. If there's one thing I've noticed from woking with CFRC Van it's that they subscribe to the hurry-up and wait theory. (not always their fault as alot of stuff has to criss-cross the country for your application to be completed, but you might want to start reading War and Peace to pass the time)

[hollywood]

That website has been the same for around 4 years I believe, its kind of a way to get people in the door. On your application you put the top 3 -5 jobs you want in the Forces, if you dont get pilot they try and push another on you. The intake for pilots over the past 3 years has been the same (20 ROTP) and (80 DEO). I think somebody else posted it, but we dont have the ability to train more pilots than that a year.

[mellow_pilot]

Isn't that sort of the point? We are short of pilots, we can't train enough per year to meet the need. Ergo, we need more training capacity in our military.

Another question, for anyone who knows. How many AF pilots are leaving for Big Red etc, now that the big boys are hiring again?

[looproll]

CEOTP is OPEN! http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engr ... dex_e.aspx

[mg777]

CEOTP is OPEN! http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engr ... dex_e.aspx

Yes it is. Enjoy the recruiting process. Mu-hahahahahahahaaaa!

I was offered a job as a CEOTP applicant but I turned it down for personal reasons. (Reasons that last October were not there). If anybody has any questions regarding the program; fire away.

So are the Forces actually short? Cause the way training and recruiting is backed up, you'd think they were trying to keep people out!

My MCC (military career counsellor) said "We desperately need pilots. We can't afford to lose someone like you." when I was withdrawing. It was a now or never type of deal so it was strange that he would tell me not to bother ever re-applying seeing as I was what they needed. But what is done is done.

Definitely-those who are impatient need not apply. The wait for Moose Jaw is around two years. Add in the two years of actual training and you are looking at 4-5 years before you are a CF Pilot that is IF you get your wings. A lot of commercial guys with time have flunked the MJ courses as mentioned by CH124 Driver. (I recognize that signature another chat forum...) There is no guarantee you will get your wings but if you do, you are set. It is a great career.

Just some advice, recruiting has two different answers on pay for CEOTP. It works differently than ROTP and they may tell you it is the same. If you go ROTP, you are an OCDT during Basic. Once you complete Basic, you are promoted to 2nd LT and receive back pay for your time in basic. With CEOTP, you are an Officer Cadet until you receive your wings. (can be 4-5 years) Meaning you will make $2400/month before taxes during that time. If you have a lot of bills, have a family to provide for or are used to a certain lifestyle that may be a concern. Of course down the road, you can make 100K+.

How many AF pilots are leaving for Big Red etc, now that the big boys are hiring again?

I personally wouldn't join the CF solely because I wanted to fly for Big Red. Everyone thinks they are going to end up flying fixed wing going multi or fast jet. Chances are you are going to fly a helo whether you like it or not since most of their fleet is helo. I know jack about Big Red applications but does having 10 years experience flying helo's make you a candidate for flying an Airbus?

Also, you are going to owe 9 years. From what I understand that payback doesn't start until you earn your wings. I could be wrong. But if so, do the math of 4-5 years of getting your wings + 9 years. You better know that you are in for the long haul with the CF. Would you want to leave a secure $100K+ job, 25 days off, security for a $40K job at Big Red with a lot less security. I guess if you are tied to a desk...

The CF careers website currently asserts that: "The Air Force is currently hiring men and women with a university degree who want to become pilots. Qualified candidates can start their training immediately."

Your training will start immediately in St.Jean not Moose Jaw. "Time for PT!" You'll be off to BOTC right away and then doing courses, second language training, on the job training etc. while you wait for your time in Moose Jaw.

Also, don't take the DND site for the final word. If you are interested in CEOTP, you won't see it directly under the Pilot job description. That site is not 100% accurate. You need to call the 800 number to find out what programs are open. It is an excellent opportunity if you are willing to work hard and can think big picture or long term.

Good luck and holla if you have any CEOTP questions...

[Invertago]

So, if you don't get your wings, where does that leave you? Do they try to stick you in another trade? Are you on a contract already, or can you just say bye its been fun. I put in my application, I have military experience (communications reserves), I got my CPL but took several years away from flying to polish off my degree, now its a question of waiting for the recruiters to get back to me or chasing ramp jobs etc. I'd love to fly for the CF, but if I cant get in as a pilot Ill go the civy road and enjoy my military adventures with the reserves.