Groundloop

[Rookie50]

Thanks, I'm lazy too, so got used to trimming up in the cutlass on final, not so much the lighter 172's like the S model, which always seemed to have a lighter nose to me.

[Colonel Sanders]

Good. Unless you're doing something really weird,
like formation aerobatics down low in the bumps,
don't fly out of trim. You fly with your fingertips,
not with a clenched fist.

[photofly]

I was taught to use a controlled "ground-loop" to turn the aircraft (it was a Champ) around on a grass field: pick the right speed, full rudder and a burst of power to get the tail-wheel to skid, and you'll do a nice 180 more or less on the spot.

I remember reading somewhere that in some WWII aircraft (it had a wide undercarriage) a semi-controlled ground loop was the approved procedure for a late abort in a take-off run. Maybe that was just a myth.

[Colonel Sanders]

Hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

A different time. It wasn't a big deal to bend some
hardware - there was plenty more where it came from.

These days, WWII aircraft are valuable, treasured antiques,
which are babied and only flown on nice days. Bending
them because of pilot error is extremely frowned upon.

[Rookie50]

Good. Unless you're doing something really weird,
like formation aerobatics down low in the bumps,
don't fly out of trim. You fly with your fingertips,
not with a clenched fist.

I try. Even in rough turbulence, on a crabbed crosswind approach, I believe it is possible to fly coordinated with a light touch. I try to use rudder more than airlieons, ESP. In the flare --- just keep the yoke pretty still. That is pretty still, to the upwind side!

The harder I grip, the worse the overcorrection, so 3 fingertips as you say work better.


In the video, the pilot looks and flys really uncomfortable. Maybe he was new to the AC in all fairness.

[Colonel Sanders]

In the flare --- just keep the yoke pretty still

Good advice. Yesterday (?) I was doing some tailwheel
training in a gusty crosswind, and after some wrestling,
he got the aircraft 6 inches above the ground, in the
landing attitude, aligned with his travel, which IMHO is
a "Good Job!"

At that point, I told him to freeze the controls. Stop
doing anything. The power was off, and sure enough
the aircraft just sat down as the airspeed decreased
and rolled down the runway.

People often feel the need to pedal the rudders like
a bicycle, or push and pull on the control column, or
like "White Gloves", saw back and forth on the control
column for no good reason, other than that they are
trying to "do something".

Of course, that's where a PIO comes from.

Sometimes, less really is more.

[Colonel Sanders]

Speaking of PIO on final, I just can't resist
re-posting this:



Look at the landing at 0:36 - see the roll and
the guy sawing back and forth, just like White
Gloves in the Maule.

[Rookie50]

In the flare --- just keep the yoke pretty still

Good advice. Yesterday (?) I was doing some tailwheel
training in a gusty crosswind, and after some wrestling,
he got the aircraft 6 inches above the ground, in the
landing attitude, aligned with his travel, which IMHO is
a "Good Job!"

At that point, I told him to freeze the controls. Stop
doing anything. The power was off, and sure enough
the aircraft just sat down as the airspeed decreased
and rolled down the runway.

People often feel the need to pedal the rudders like
a bicycle, or push and pull on the control column, or
like "White Gloves", saw back and forth on the control
column for no good reason, other than that they are
trying to "do something".

Of course, that's where a PIO comes from.

Sometimes, less really is more.

It is hard to do. Usually though, I have found, even in the worst gusty crosswind, it seems to calm down, most of the time, a foot or so off the runway, so you can freeze and hold your inputs, and just wait. It does take practice, as 50 feet up, above the trees, it can be a bit of a bucking bronco, especially when light weight! Just seems to often cease right in the flare, so is the time to stop wrestling.

[Rookie50]

Some day I need to tackle tailwheel. Likely improve my skills (and sounds like fun). A 182 rg is great for my mission -- stable, long legs and great useful load -- but a fun handling champion, it ain't.

[old_man]

I've never even seen a tailwheel jet

http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-f ... -Away.html

[Genetk44]

Colonel Sanders wrote:

I've never even seen a tailwheel jet



And then there was this:

[PilotDAR]

You'd have to be quick with the other power lever of you lost and engine during takeoff! This might be easier....

[photofly]

I knew I'd seen it somewhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=re ... Y3v1-WMJS8
Instructions for a deliberate ground loop in a P47 after an engine failure in the roll.
Start at 11:00 minutes.

[Colonel Sanders]

50 feet up, above the trees, it can be a bit of a bucking bronco

Yeah, but that's what makes it fun

Instructions for a deliberate ground loop

Here's Kirby Chambliss's version:



Each of those prop blades is $19,000, and
of course the engine is trash.

[dr.aero]

Hmm... I can't quite tell if that RedBull pilot learned his lesson or not...

[Colonel Sanders]

Kirby is tough as nails. This is January in Central America:




If you ever meet him, ask about the time he went
swimming in China.

[photofly]

I'm too scared to ask if it was a "good job" or not

[Colonel Sanders]

Kirby is an incredibly skilled and capable pilot. More
so than anyone here, I'm pretty sure.

That said, he's awfully hard on the hardware. I remember
one airshow season, he went through 3 engines. And that's
what this latest crash was - an engine failure at low altitude
and low airspeed and high alpha. I suspect most people
would not have survived it.

[pelmet]

I was taught to use a controlled "ground-loop" to turn the aircraft (it was a Champ) around on a grass field: pick the right speed, full rudder and a burst of power to get the tail-wheel to skid, and you'll do a nice 180 more or less on the spot.

I remember reading somewhere that in some WWII aircraft (it had a wide undercarriage) a semi-controlled ground loop was the approved procedure for a late abort in a take-off run. Maybe that was just a myth.

I know a couple of guys that intentionally groundlooped a 40 passenger twin turboprop on a short, contaminated runway. Having no reverse capability in the design and little braking action, their alternative was a sharp dropoff at the end of the runway. So I believe rudder was combined with adding power on one engine. It worked.

[Colonel Sanders]

I believe rudder was combined with adding power on one engine.

If you're going to spin it around, you might as
well apply full power after you've got it turned
180 degree and are travelling backwards ... if
you're heading towards a cliff. The airplane is
trashed at that point anyways.

My long-deceased uncle used to do that in a ski-plane
on ice. He'd take a terrific run at the shore, spin
it around, and use a blast of full power to stop it
in reverse.

I will do a far less dramatic trick with a tailwheel
aircraft on dry pavement. Pull the mixture while
still taxiing at a good speed, kick it around, and
back it in using momentum. Slow motion, though.

[Blakey]

I've never even seen a tailwheel jet

http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-f ... -Away.html

You don't have to go that far. That's one in the video he posted!

[tiggermoth]

I only have an hour or two of taildragger time, and it was dual in a Citabria. Great fun!! I really would like to get into something other than my trusty 172 that will progress my skills, but right now my bank account (wife ) says stick with what I have. She likes the 172 because she is into photography, and she likes how nice and stable it is for taking pictures. I have tried to convince her that something with a nice big bubble canopy like an RV-8 would work good too But, RV-8's do run fairly pricey.

I've never even seen a tailwheel jet

I don't know why, but I have always been partial to this taildraggin' jet.

[Beefitarian]

It has great lines. I like it!

[looproll]

my landings in the Pitts S-1 are always better when I yell at myself after touchdown - reminders not to over control

[Colonel Sanders]

landings in the Pitts S-1

Does your single-seat have a tendency to oscillate in
pitch during the rollout? I used to fly an S-1C which
would do that if you weren't careful at touchdown.

It wasn't a control issue - just a nuisance, really. And
it was worse inside than looking at it from outside, as
the amplitude of the oscillations was small.

Dunno why it did it - it supposedly had the "long" S1
fuselage, and a long round tube sticking out the back
with a locking Haigh tailwheel. To turn sharply on the
ground you had to unlock it, which required pulling on
a cable, and then around you went.